Villain Tiers (Of an Unusual Sort)

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AverageJoe
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Villain Tiers (Of an Unusual Sort)

Hi all. So I was thinking yesterday about how the difficulty of some villains can sometimes be frustrating, and not necessarily due to their difficulty rating. These villains may have a gimmick that makes the game slow, perhaps certain cards that just make everyone groan, etc. Without further ado, here is my tier list of villains that are just plain irritating. This list assumes that there are 5 players playing 5 heroes (or 8, if the Sentinels are involved), and that the environment neither hinders nor aids either side in a way significant enough to affect the list.

Note: I don't own Wager Master, and as such I cannot rank him as I've never played against him.

Tier A: "OF COURSE THAT WOULD HAPPEN"

Spite: He isn't invulnerable, but he may as well be in his first incarnation. All his damage=hp gain, and although you're supposed to use the victims and the safe house against him, Forced Entry tends to put paid to that. Many are the times I've tried to save a Good Samaritan, only to have the card revealed destroy said Good Samiritan, or what have you.

Ms. Information: She spends the first half of the fight more than invulnerable, she's not even a target! If her deck doesn't churn out clues early enough, it gets so bloody frustrating as the waves of diversions stimie your attempts to do anything at all. She blows up tons of Ongoings and Equipments, leaving Heroes who heavily lean on that sort of thing feeling useless. Many methods of damage mitigation and prevention are less effective against her as she causes so much self damage, leading to damage buffs backfiring. Two particularily annoying cards are Another Reality's Debt and Missing Resources.

The Matriarch: She throws out tons of little birds backed up by Mask of the Matriarch and her two Cohorts, all of which are very hard to keep off the field. Deck control is largely ineffective against her as if you tuck her cards she plays a bunch of birds and gets them right back. If you combine a damage prevention card like Grease Gun and a mass damage effect like Tempest's innate power to clear the field, she just uses Darken the Skies to get it all back. Really the birds are almost never the problem, but the damage she inflicts in doing so, in a game with lots of people. I will note that in a 3-person game, the damage she does in response to a bird being destroyed is much less of a problem, since cards like Undaunted, Ta Moko, and Fortitude will negate it. She has some counters that can make her manageable, but she's still very annoying and very difficult.

Citizen Dawn: Two words sum up the most annoying thing about her: Devastating. Aurora. That card sets the heroes back to square one which can turn a sure victory into defeat late game. Her pregame citizens can really make things difficult, especially since Citizen Truth and Citizen Anvil have an uncanny knack of showing up in that group. Blinding Blast is very bad early game, and her ongoings can be troublesome, but not so much that they're worth going in depth about.

The Chairman: In the very likely event the heroes don't include the Visionary who gets Brain Burn early, you're in for a tough time, since it's very difficult to keep the thugs out of play for long since they are played out of the trash. The Operative is a pain because she whacks someone every time you remove a villain card, making her a priority, but in order to make the Chairman flip, you need to focus on the Underbosses, but in order to keep your team healthy you need to focus on the Thugs... This guy is a pain due to his capacity for target saturation, and Jailbreak means that no matter how in control you think you are, he might get all his Underbosses right back to lay the hurt on your team, no matter whether he's flipped or not. And when he's flipped, don't let his low HP fool you, he fights back vigorously himself and gives a buff to all Thug damage, which is murderous with Gunmen. The Informants are also annoying since most heroes can remove any a thug with any old direct damage card, but then she'll play the top card of the deck and even though you probably take her out anyway, her damage is done once she either forces you to skip a play phase and knock her out with a power, or she plays a villain card when you take her out during said play phase AND she forced you to waste a card that would be better spent hitting an Underboss or the Operative.

Tier B: "Man this is frustrating"

Infinitor: The Sinestro expy puts out numerous projections a turn, because all of his one-shots can play the top card of the villain deck after they resolve. He does moderate damage and his flipside isn't super nasty which bumps him down to B rather than Tier A, as his damage is more mitigatable.

Kaargra Warfang: She, like Ms. Information, spends most of the game not being a target. What sets her apart as less of an annoyance is that instead of damage and relentless card destruction, she focuses almost solely on damage and the Crowd Favor mechanic is fairly easy to abuse and the Title cards, while a nice thematic touch, give the heroes another weapon in their arsenal.

La Capitan: She's definitely annoying since she takes your cards from you and sits on them, and her crew are quite nasty for minion-types, but she has somewhat low HP for a villain and her main way of mitigating damage (using the stolen cards as ablative shields) is easily countered as she loses one each time she's hit. As a result, her annoyance factor is due to her group's hefty damage output and her habit of stealing your cards.

Iron Legacy:

Cosmic Omnitron:

Progeny:

Tier C: "That's pretty annoying"

Plague Rat: This guy lays the smacketh down HARD. He can burn HP off of a team of heroes in a way only Iron Legacy can match. This would make him a Tier A contender if he didn't have two glaring weaknesses. One, he has NO equipment or ongoing destruction at all, meaning that cards that let heroes be immune to damage while suspending their own actions like Mistform stop his assault cold. Second, he is reliant on two types of damage: Melee and Toxic, which means that heroes who can resist damage types of their choosing (i.e. Tempest's Elemental Subwave Transducer or whatever it's called) or become immune to them (i.e. Legacy's Next Evolution) have much less to fear. To a lesser extent, his Ongoings are too few to be a bother, and his nastiest one, Bestial Vitality, is a one-of in the deck. Thus, he's devastating against the unwary, but he's very easily manageable and as such isn't very frustrating.

Omnitron (Normal):

The Ennead:

Kismet:

The Dreamer:

The Vengeance Five:

Tier D: "Yeah, that's kind of a pain"

Akash'Bhuta:

Grand Warlord Voss:

Apostate:

Skinwalker Gloomweaver:

Tier E: "Not an issue"

Baron Blade (Both Versions):

Ambuscade:

Gloomweaver (Normal):

Deadline:

 

Comments, criticisms, and suggestions are welcome and encouraged!

MORE EXPLANATIONS COMING LATER!


"You're just saying that because you don't want the world to end."
"OF COURSE I'M SAYING THAT BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THE WORLD TO END! THIS IS NOT AN OTHERWISE COMMON TOPIC OF CONVERSATION!"

Edited by: AverageJoe on Dec 3 2015 - 4:02pm
Powerhound_2000
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First, welcome to the forums.  

I think a lot of people have varying opinions on some villains.    Spite is annoying but his games play out one of two ways for me.  Either I have damage prevention and take him out because he can't heal or I try to survive until all the drugs are out and then start saving victims so I can more easily take him out on his flipped side.  So for me he's annoying but not impossible.    

Miss Information falls along the same lines as Spite to me as the game plan is similar which is normally waiting or if able help her get clues into play.   Once she is a target it can be a slog but I'm hopeful I can overcome her at that point.   

Matriarch to me varies from game to game.   Mostly it seems to revolve around how well I can deal with the cohorts and carrion fields.  

Citzen Dawn only becomes a major problem to me when playing her on advanced and she flips.   If you do manage to get her flipped back your hero team is likely in rough shape.   Devastating Aurora is a mean card but to me it just keeps me in check of what I put out.   It also means I try holding onto cards like Impromptu Invention, decommissioned hardware, and modular realignment.  The game where I feel doomed from the start is a opening of blinding blast and Citizens Sweat and Tears resulting in no hand to start the game and if you can't take Tears out even drawing two cards is worthless.   Citizen Dawn is always a challenge for sure.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
mwc146
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How is the Chaitman not on Tier A? I always find him a lot more frustrating than the Matriarch. He just puts out so many cards, even if you have Takedown or Mistbound in play, that it's overwhelming unless you have Visionary out and play Brain Burn early. He only has two cards that isn't severely bad news for your team, the one that heals him and the one that plays Environment cards. All the rest are at the very least a pain to deal with.

Powerhound_2000
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I don't think the list is finished so the Chairman may be in that initial tier.   Mostly it is just a badly timed Prison Break or Informant that get me.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
AverageJoe
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Powerhound_2000 wrote:

I don't think the list is finished so the Chairman may be in that initial tier.   Mostly it is just a badly timed Prison Break or Informant that get me.  

Yeah he's gonna be in that tier except I had to go when I was initially typing it, and lounging outside my engineering lab room so I was just going off of memory. I'll update it later now that I can look at a full list of villains.

And as for your initial statement: This isn't a difficulty tier list, this is just how frustrating they are. Some villains are easy but frustrating to play against because they drag the game out or put on a really nasty front and then run out of gas.


"You're just saying that because you don't want the world to end."
"OF COURSE I'M SAYING THAT BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THE WORLD TO END! THIS IS NOT AN OTHERWISE COMMON TOPIC OF CONVERSATION!"

Silverleaf
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I basically have two tiers: Villains That Annoy Me So Much That I Never Play Them (Spite, Miss Information), and Everyone Else.


Just assume I'm always doing that.

Damn it, Ronway!

Powerhound_2000
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Top of my list for dragging things out is Akash'Bhuta at times.   Between her health, ongoing/ equipment destruction, out of turn card plays, and ability to stops a hero from dealing damage she can make a game drag on.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
Trajector
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I don't think Citizen Dawn is annoying at all, even when she plays That Card. She's simply got an ability to launch a debilitating attack on the heroes...as a villain should, really. Fortunately, they don't come up often and they don't have a persistent "annoyance factor" the way Spite's drugs or the Matriarch's cohorts do.

Pydro
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Welcome to the forums!


Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-Robert E. Howard, "The Tower of the Elephant"

mwc146
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Trajector wrote:

I don't think Citizen Dawn is annoying at all, even when she plays That Card. She's simply got an ability to launch a debilitating attack on the heroes...as a villain should, really. Fortunately, they don't come up often and they don't have a persistent "annoyance factor" the way Spite's drugs or the Matriarch's cohorts do.

She really depends a lot on what Citizens make it out. Blood, Sweat and Tears all at once? You're in big trouble.
Donner
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Skinwalker Gloomweaver can take a while, but it's not a bad while.


"Deja-fu? You've heard of that?"
- Lu Tze, Sweeper, Thief of Time by Terry Pratchett

phantaskippy
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Tier B are my go to villains.  Love fighting them.