Vengeance - Matriarch

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lynkfox
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Vengeance - Matriarch

Is ... is that... The Matriarch on Parse's Reveal the Flaws .... in that giant things hands? Which has the symbol on the side of Wrath of the Cosmos? Which might be the Cosmic Energy in Matriarch's Background???!?!??!?!?!


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lynkfox wrote:

Is ... is that... The Matriarch on Parse's Reveal the Flaws .... in that giant things hands? Which has the symbol on the side of Wrath of the Cosmos? Which might be the Cosmic Energy in Matriarch's Background???!?!??!?!?!

I think the silver dude on that card is possibly the Scholars nemmy (notice the Alchemy symbol on its head). Probably related to the Cosmic Entity in some way, but I have doubts that they are the same.

And I think Matriarch is getting the hero deck treatment in the final expansion. The math just does not work out in favor of seeing "new" heros, so Villains turned good fits that bill perfectly. Plus a costume change is always a good indicator of an alternate version. Could just be a promo Villain Matty.

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I seem to recall that someone in that card (Parse, presumably) is attempting to free Lilian from the grasp of that giant creature thingy...I suppose it might just be because while Lilian has done some not-very-nice things, maybe Parse thinks that she still shouldn't get mashed by erm...whatever that huge giant creature is. Haven't looked at the card for a couple of months so can't remember exactly what's in the image, though.


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Captain Cosmic is trying to free her.

Thinking back to Time-Crazed prisoner, there's a scrawl that says "IT SENDS ITS SERVANT." I think the Silver Monster is the servant, not CosBe. I don't think GTG is going to reveal the appearance of CosBe until the very end. It'll make it far more dramatic if they hide it from us.

Keep in mind that Lillian's costume hasn't changed--It's hard to see on her cards, but her dress has always had a dark green front. You have to look closely in bright light.


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... Can we start calling the CosBe Bill?


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I'm guessing the scene on the "Reveal the Flaws" is just after the one on "Building of Rooks, or at least in the same place." The ground on the latter is uneven and appears to have tiny dots that look like fire coming up while the birds appear to be coming down or flying away.  Also the wreckage has the same shape as the base of the windmill on "Building of Rooks."  Also the sky is the same muted color of red.  Also they use the same silloutted style for charecters in the foreground.  This leads me to wonder if the charecter on "Building of Rooks" is Lillian or Parse.  I would guess Lillian based on the sense of fear that I feel like we are supposed to get from the character.  I would guess Parse based on her noticably being either left handed or ambidextrious (Data-Mining is the only card where her glove is on her right hand) and the forward positioning of the left arm on "Buildign of Rooks."  Also plutoian means "of or relating to Pluto." Which can be taken to mean the underworld or the dwarf planet Pluto.  If the former then it likely indicates her death.  If the latter it would join the cards and show the connection between the two cards.  Please note that these are not mutually exclusive interpetations.  In fact if you will note the big thing is rising out of the ground.  Pluto in Roman mythology is The God of the Underworld (which is where I want Windows Eight to go) which itself was called Pluto.  Perhaps Lillian is a sacrifice?  It could also be Parses death but as my favorite Vengenace charecter I don't want think about her death even though Christopher has a history of killing my favorite characters (cough Unity cough.)  Also please excuse spelling errors as I refuse to pay for office.

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Interesting enough I believe this is the first instance of The Matriarch outside of her own deck, isnt it?


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lynkfox wrote:

Interesting enough I believe this is the first instance of The Matriarch outside of her own deck, isnt it?

Not including Flavor text, then yes.

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So far this cosmic entity sounds like Galactus.


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TeslaRoyale wrote:
It could also be Parses death but as my favorite Vengenace charecter I don't want think about her death even though Christopher has a history of killing my favorite characters (cough Unity cough.)

He's a student of George R. R. Martin

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Greywind wrote:

He's a student of George R. R. Martin

George has only killed, like, two non-bit characters that haven't come back in some way shape or form.  And he's only killed one POV character.  It's nice that he's willing to do the deed, but I wish death would stick better than it does.

In a similar vein, this is COMICS.  Death is completely meaningless.  Even Bucky and Gwen Stacy have come back from the dead, and in-universe Mr. Fixer has done the same.  I wouldn't be too concerned about anyone staying in the ground long.

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Bucky is dead to me.

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Bucky  is dead to us all.


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Bucky was Captain America, and he deserves our respect.


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The Matriarch's Psychic damage is her forcing a gratuitous amount of Snapple facts about birds into a hero's brain.

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JimmytheRat wrote:
In a similar vein, this is COMICS.  Death is completely meaningless.

Except for vampires.  (See what I did there?)

But seriously, a long-running fantasy of mine is that I take over one of the Big Two comics companies, and one of the first comics I command the creation of features Death sitting in a bar bitching about how her job used to mean something, and now the whole planet is laughing at her utter inability to hold onto even one superhero/villain/sidekick/DNPC that anyone cares about for more than a few years.  (Actually now that I think about it, this would only happen if I got Marvel, since DC's Death is completely not the whining type.  But since I have plenty of plans for DC characters and almost none for Marvel, this works out.)


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I love and respect Captain America, but do not enjoy anything involving Bucky since his sudden reappearance in 2000-whatever (5? 6?). I was let down when the mantle shifted to him, as I didn't feel him noble enough, and never could look up to him as a hero, ala Captain America.

 

Now, this might be due to my being much older and not liking sudden change of my childhood memories with the more classic Captain America approach. Or any comic universes that I actually followed. Basically, I'm a curmudgeon.

 

...Stay off my lawn! [This is where I'd be shaking a gnarly stick a foot in the air, since I couldn't possibly raise my brittle bones above my head].


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I prefer Bucky as Cap rather than hyper-conservative Cap being retconned into U.S.Agent.


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The Matriarch's Psychic damage is her forcing a gratuitous amount of Snapple facts about birds into a hero's brain.

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Blossercubbles wrote:

I love and respect Captain America, but do not enjoy anything involving Bucky since his sudden reappearance in 2000-whatever (5? 6?). I was let down when the mantle shifted to him, as I didn't feel him noble enough, and never could look up to him as a hero, ala Captain America. Now, this might be due to my being much older and not liking sudden change of my childhood memories with the more classic Captain America approach. Or any comic universes that I actually followed. Basically, I'm a curmudgeon. ...Stay off my lawn! [This is where I'd be shaking a gnarly stick a foot in the air, since I couldn't possibly raise my brittle bones above my head].

 

I agree with this.  Give me old cap, and don't apologize that the world he came from wasn't always an enlightened one.  We learn best from our past when we face it honestly.

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First orderof business, what deck is this "Building of Rooks" card in? Second, in defense of Bucky, he didn't want the role of Captain America when it was offered to him(He didn't consider himself worthy of the mantle or the shield.) But he also understood that the world needed a Cap, a role only he could ever dream of filling.

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the Matriarch. A rook is a type of bird, and a building is the name for a group of them.


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McBehrer wrote:

the Matriarch. A rook is a type of bird, and a building is the name for a group of them.


Yes, it is. But that's only one possible reading. I merely offered another.
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By the way - I am about to begin a game against Kismet, and it just hit me that the symbol on the back of her card is a raven-like bird. It is also what her talisman is sculpted like.

Could it be that the talisman and the Mask are part of a set - or have a common origin ?

WIll Kismet join the Dead Poet Society ? She has the look...

edit : in fact, the talisman is culpted like a raven bird in its egg - how is it possible I didn't see it months ago ?


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I think that the artwork on the back of her card is a Native American style raven.  Raven is a trickster in the some of the Pacific northwest tribal mythology (including Arizona, where she was born, according to her Bio), so it is entirely possible that she grew up hearing stories, or the talisman is Native American in origin.  

Masks are big in tribal culture (particularly bird masks), so its also possible that the matriarch's mask is a Native American artifact. 

EDIT: though looking around online, Native American masks tended to be more solid (IE, full-face) and colorful than the Matriarch's.

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TheSoundOfTrees wrote:

Could it be that the talisman and the Mask are part of a set - or have a common origin ?

This is facinating.

Some of the theories that came out of my big Matriarch thread were based around the connections to Norse mythology. One of those connections were of stories that told of pieces of clothing or other items that were imbued with magical powers, like a cloak of feathers that would bestow flight. Because her Cohorts are the legendary eyes and ears of Odin, thinking of her mask as an analog for those magical Norse items seems right. 

Now I also have a working theory that the Cosmic Entity is less of a Galactus type (destroyer) and maybe more in-line with an angry Odin (father). If there turns out to be any kind of connection there, thinking these relics (at least some of them in the game) all had a similar origin is pretty entertaing. 

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Could we find connections, even weak ones, with the other relics then?

 

Actually, do we have a list of all the relics somewhere?

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TheSoundOfTrees wrote:

By the way - I am about to begin a game against Kismet, and it just hit me that the symbol on the back of her card is a raven-like bird. It is also what her talisman is sculpted like.Could it be that the talisman and the Mask are part of a set - or have a common origin ?WIll Kismet join the Dead Poet Society ? She has the look...edit : in fact, the talisman is culpted like a raven bird in its egg - how is it possible I didn't see it months ago ?

Kismet wasn't designed by Christopher, so I wouldn't count on her having any connections to the rest of the multiverse.  It's not impossible but it's far less of a given than for all other characters.

Foote wrote:

Some of the theories that came out of my big Matriarch thread were based around the connections to Norse mythology. One of those connections were of stories that told of pieces of clothing or other items that were imbued with magical powers, like a cloak of feathers that would bestow flight. Because her Cohorts are the legendary eyes and ears of Odin, thinking of her mask as an analog for those magical Norse items seems right. Now I also have a working theory that the Cosmic Entity is less of a Galactus type (destroyer) and maybe more in-line with an angry Odin (father). If there turns out to be any kind of connection there, thinking these relics (at least some of them in the game) all had a similar origin is pretty entertaing. 

Christopher confirmed that Huginn and Muninn are not the Huginn and Muninn, so I don't think we can expect a literal Odin in the game (besides which Marvel would probably sue - nevermind that they didn't invent Thor and his various relatives, I'm sure they still hold a copyright on them all and have sufficiently scary lawyers to enforce their "ownership" of the entire Norse mythos).  It's still likely there is a connection, but probably a much vaguer one.


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Alex didn't really DESIGN her, he just helped shape her mechanics. Her appearence was all Christopher and Adam.


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Envisioner wrote:

Christopher confirmed that Huginn and Muninn are not the Huginn and Muninn, so I don't think we can expect a literal Odin in the game (besides which Marvel would probably sue - nevermind that they didn't invent Thor and his various relatives, I'm sure they still hold a copyright on them all and have sufficiently scary lawyers to enforce their "ownership" of the entire Norse mythos).  It's still likely there is a connection, but probably a much vaguer one.

Does everyone miss the point here? YES I know Huginn and Muninn are not THE Huginn and Muninn and that Odin is not in the game. But that not important at all and a pretty far cry from what I said. There is still a strong thematic connection between the Norse mythos and her powerset/mask. You think those names were just randomly chosen out of Christophers beard without any consideration to speaking to broader themes? You guys are so litteral sometimes it drives me nuts. 

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No. Lots of comic companies have used the gods of various mythos. As long as a Thor in a comic doesn't have blond hair, there's isn't a whole lot that Marvel can do.

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Foote wrote:
You think those names were just randomly chosen out of Christophers beard without any consideration to speaking to broader themes?

I think that if you have two ravens there really isn't anything else you could name then besides "Bobby" and "Steve" or something comparably dumb.  Lilian probably named them herself.

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You guys are so litteral sometimes it drives me nuts.

It's hard enough to communicate even IF people say exactly what they mean.  I don't always succeed in doing so, but if I can't manage to make a clear and explicit statement of precisely what I meant, then I really have nobody but myself (or "all of you idiots", but that's me being an arrogant bastard so I try to avoid it) for the fact that nobody understood me.  If you mean to say there's a connection with a vaguely Odin-like being, perhaps you should say that, not "there's a connection with Odin".


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Foote wrote:

You think those names were just randomly chosen out of Christophers beard


Is it ok if I hope that's how it happened for how spectacular it sounds?
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Pretty sure there's a quote from Christopher floating around here somewhere saying they weren't random names, whether it goes on or not to say they are important names and not 'merely' references I can't remember.

Someone find that thread!


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Envisioner wrote:

Kismet wasn't designed by Christopher, so I wouldn't count on her having any connections to the rest of the multiverse.  It's not impossible but it's far less of a given than for all other characters.

But he already integrated her with the rest of the multiverse. Setback was planned for years, but he made her his nemesis, changing his plans. I think it is something he (or rather they) enjoy a lot : making someone's else idea fit seamlessly in their coherent comic book world, like if it was planned all along.

I don't remember if the "raven symbol", or rather the art for the talisman, was Alex's idea or not - but if anything in her backstory/suggested art had not fit their plans for the multiverse, they would have changed it. When it comes to the multiverse, and as long as Christopher is in charge, I don't believe in coincidences.


Any view of things that is not strange is false - Neil Gaiman

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He's an English Major people.

Don't try to figure out how his mind works.

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Hey, you dissin on the English Majors?


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
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TheSoundOfTrees wrote:

 

Envisioner wrote:
Kismet wasn't designed by Christopher, so I wouldn't count on her having any connections to the rest of the multiverse.  It's not impossible but it's far less of a given than for all other characters.

 

But he already integrated her with the rest of the multiverse. Setback was planned for years, but he made her his nemesis, changing his plans. I think it is something he (or rather they) enjoy a lot : making someone's else idea fit seamlessly in their coherent comic book world, like if it was planned all along.I don't remember if the "raven symbol", or rather the art for the talisman, was Alex's idea or not - but if anything in her backstory/suggested art had not fit their plans for the multiverse, they would have changed it. When it comes to the multiverse, and as long as Christopher is in charge, I don't believe in coincidences.

 

I more think that there was already a Nemesis for Setback that dealt with Luck, and kismet just happened to work pretty well in that role so they adpoted the mechanics/storyline of Alex and went from there. Not that they changed their plans, they just let someone else work on the details.


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