Supply and Demand Benchmark Unlock Discussion

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FearLord
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Tried Benchmark, Expatriate, Omnitron X, Setback and FS Parse vs Omnitron at Omnitron IV just to see if the only requirement was Devices Destroyed and Equipment played - plenty of both happened in this game and I had loads of equipment out at the end. No unlock when I played an equipment in the next game...

Nobody went down which I guess could be a factor, but it’s more likely the first game needs to feature at least some of Baron Blade, Friction, Fright Train and Plague Rat... not sure if they all need to be involved though...

Foote
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This unlock is still eluding me. Honestly, it’s hard enough to just “win” this V5 game, let alone control the tempo enough to make sure you reach these thresholds. It’s obviously not impossible, I’m just having super bad luck or I’m just flat out not prioritizing my targets and damage properly. It’s really tough. I might give it up and just wait for the free unlock haha. 

FearLord
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Foote wrote:

This unlock is still eluding me. Honestly, it’s hard enough to just “win” this V5 game, let alone control the tempo enough to make sure you reach these thresholds. It’s obviously not impossible, I’m just having super bad luck or I’m just flat out not prioritizing my targets and damage properly. It’s really tough. I might give it up and just wait for the free unlock haha. 

Well Ambascade at least doesn’t seem necessary which makes it a lot easier.

tenebrous
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I think that revenant is definatly involved, I did the revo 5 game and won with benchmark as the last standing but no unlock and revenant was not played.

 

MindWanderer
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Yeah, swapping Ambuscade for the Operative helps a ton.  Setting Sun Ra, Super-Scientific Tachyon, or Tempest as the fifth member help chew through the villains nicely when Glamour isn't an issue.

I'm actually wondering if Friction is required.  She helps, since she plays her two devices right off the bat, but she may not be strictly necessary, and AFAIK no one's tried leaving her out.  Attempt to skip Plague Rat or Fright Train have thus far failed, though.


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Ario
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Revenant is not necessary, he never came out for me (on the game I won) and I got the unlock.

NyxFSSD
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Well this is great. Based on discussion between Bart (person who makes spreadsheets relevant to the unlocks to break down a lot of information) and myself on Discord (seen here: https://pastebin.com/H1bfcMhY  with a correction that I meant (10 minus RC characters) towards the end), Migrant mentioned we should keep going in that direction.

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The community (on Discord and forums) has discovered the official unlock condition for Benchmark: Supply & Demand!

First, win a team mode game wherein at least (100 - 10*X) equipment cards are played and at least (50 - 5*X) devices are destroyed, where X is the number of RevoCorp related decks in the game. Then, play an equipment card. The list of RevoCorp related decks is: Ambuscade, Baron Blade, Benchmark, Expatriette, Friction, Fright Train, Luminary, Parse, Plague Rat, and Setback.


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Gus_Smedstad
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Theoretically this is much easier once Luminary is released and you can play that exact match up. Until then it’s 10 and 5 if you take all the named decks possible, and 20 and 10 if you omit any deck.

Kratos13
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Wow that was rough.  I used Setting Sun Ra with the 9 Revocorp decks and barely scraped by meeting the prereqs with only Setback left standing at 1 HP.  Actually, his finishing card play was Reckless Rush, so if rest of the card had played out, he would’ve incapped himself too!

Benchmark went down sooner than I wanted so I was shocked I actually played 10 equipments and it took awhile before Baron Blade played two more devices.  There was also a point where I got really worried because Ambuscade was about to reshuffle which would’ve brought Glamour and the rest of the Slaughterhouse Six back to life on Ambuscade’s incap.  Luckily, I managed to incap Ambuscade before his reshuffle.

MindWanderer
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It'll be much easier with Luminary in general, since he brings his own devices to the party.

Can we un-sticky the Freedom Five and Setting Sun Ra unlock threads now? It's getting unwieldy and we'll probably have four more in the next few weeks.


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Gus_Smedstad
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So, the question is, what’s the easiest setup for this? Obviously you take the 4 Revocorp heroes and at least 4 Revocorp villains. I’d say 5 except that one player managed the 20 / 10 requirement for dropping Ambuscade, and not having to deal with Glamor is a big plus. Which environment, and which 5th hero? I’d take someone more defensive than Ra, personally, like Team Leader Tachyon. Or someone with equipment of their own - Omnitron comes to mind, since he was a big help in the very, very difficult recent one-shot that featured these villains.

FearLord
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Gus_Smedstad wrote:

So, the question is, what’s the easiest setup for this? Obviously you take the 4 Revocorp heroes and at least 4 Revocorp villains. I’d say 5 except that one player managed the 20 / 10 requirement for dropping Ambuscade, and not having to deal with Glamor is a big plus. Which environment, and which 5th hero? I’d take someone more defensive than Ra, personally, like Team Leader Tachyon. Or someone with equipment of their own - Omnitron comes to mind, since he was a big help in the very, very difficult recent one-shot that featured these villains.

I’m going to try and set it up later by leaving out Ambascade and playing in Omnitron IV (for additional device smashing as I’ll need 10) and probably play with Omnitron x in the last slot for additional equipment? Actually maybe Skyscraper would be good for some crowd control as well as having equipment (and equipment that lets you search for more equipment)...

Missingno
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Honestly I feel like ditching Setback or Expat would be the better call while bringing in DW Fixer and F5 Absolute Zero.  These two get in tons of damage and AZ can keep himself alive pretty well.  In addition DW Fixer and bring equipment in and out real easily and both can deal with Glamour easily enough.


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It took me a few tries but the game that went the best for this challenge was using the 9 revocorp chars plus classic legacy. The damage increase allows to clean house much easier. And Legacy has awesome defensive utility.

Missingno
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https://pastebin.com/2vB6mBaf Finally got the thing.  Turns out Wraith + Scholar can let you stall just long enough to get everyone setup.  Then you just need to toy with blade until you got enough things killed.  I went overboard becase I lost count and wanted to be extra sure.


I'll put things in here later.

Dr. Kaylo Epsilon
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Gus_Smedstad wrote:

So, the question is, what’s the easiest setup for this? Obviously you take the 4 Revocorp heroes and at least 4 Revocorp villains.

My opinion is that "easy" and "fast" are sometimes quit different things.

I got the unlock precondition using Benchmark, Grandpa Legacy, FS Parse, Hunted Naturalist, and PW Haka in OmnitronVI against Biomancer, Baron Blade, Friction, Proletariat, and Greazer. That's only four Revo-Kin, so it required 60 equipment plays and 30 device destructions.

The general game plan was in two parts.

Part 1: Stabilization. The goal here was to neutralize environmental and villain threats until the game was in a sustainable state. For th environment, Naturalist set up Environmental Allies to protect against damage from the environment and Haka ate the equipment-bothering Mechani-accumulators under Savage Mana. For villains, the team focused fire on each of the non-bimancer villains in turn to reduce them to just incap abilities, and Hakka ate all the fleshchildren under Savage Mana to keep them out of the picture. End result: Biomancer facing down a team of heroes who could heal faster than BM one-shots could harm, AND biomancer protecting himself sufficiently against environment damage that there was no risk of the game ending until the heroes decided to stop toying with Him.

Part 2: Juggling. Now to rack up the equipment/device numbers. With all non-target OmnitronIV cards in play and the mechani-accumulators under Savage Mana, the environment puts between five and seven devices into play each turn. With damage boosted by Parse's two Explout Vulnerabillities and Legacy's Inspiring Presence, a properly configured Benchmark can destroy all of those 5, 10, and sometimes 15hp targets each turn. And by reconfiguring his entire equipment loadout each turn, he can also play 9 hardware per turn. (Meanwhile, if you have a hankering for everyone to finish at full health, Haka can keep the ground pounded, Legacy can keep BM took down, and Naturalist can put out two Rhino-powered indomitable forces per turn... not like they got much else to do while Benchmark juggles!)

Anyhow, after no more than seven rounds of juggling, regardless of whatever happened in Part 1, you'll have played over 60 equipment and destroyed over 30 devices. At which point Biomancer starts to look worried be because a heavily loaded and damage boosted inferno missile pod is pointed his way...

A quick game start later, and I had SaD Benchmark available!

Bottom line - this was slow and grindy (like I often play when other humans aren't involved) but also was pretty easy. The only hard part was keeping track of how many equipment I had played and how many devices I'd destroyed. I'm not sure if devices under savage Mana being destroyed by Parse or Benchmark's environment destruction counted toward the device total... if they would, the whole thing would have been somewhat shorter, but I didnt test it because it was a rather long game and I didn't want to have to start over if they didn't count.


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Gus_Smedstad
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That’s interesting sounding. I should try that when I get some time to burn. Though I’d seriously look at whether it’s possible to swap in more Revocorp decks. Biomancer, Haka, and Naturalist all seem important to this strategy. Which leaves me eyeing Legacy, Proletariat, and Greazer. The Naturalist is doing your tanking, so Legacy isn’t absolutely vital, though the extra power use from Grandpa is usually a powerful ability.

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If haka plays Savage Mana and "eats" a device, then uses the power, destorying the device under Savage Mana, does it count for a device being destroyed two times for the purpose of the unlock? In the same way that Dominion triggers both when an environment target loses all HP and when it is destroyed from under Savage mana.

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No, because while cards under Savage Mana maintain their card type (e.g. environment card), they have no text so they are no longer devices.


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Dr. Kaylo Epsilon
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Pydro wrote:

No, because while cards under Savage Mana maintain their card type (e.g. environment card), they have no text so they are no longer devices.

That's what I was assuming, but I also know Handelabra supplies some digital-only quality-of-life features that mutate the card type line (e.g. how Caspit's Playground in Freedom Tower adds ", equipment" to ongoing cards) and I noticed the type line of cards under Savage Mana were not blanked out, so it seemed they might still be registering in-game as devices.


Let R be the set containing of all sets which do not contain themselves. Is R contained in R?

FearLord
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Finally got it! Played with Operative over Ambascade and Legacy in the ‘non-Revocorp’ slot at Omnitron IV to get more devices (as I needed 10 and to play 20 equipment). Crushed the fight down until we got to just Benchmark and Expatriate at low health vs the Operative. I used redeploy loadout to play lots of equipment and then I just had to keep them alive while I waited for the environment to supply the last 2 devices. It wasn’t too bad once I could have Benchmark cover Expatriate with his damage reduction and healing out. On the final turn he was easily set up to crush everything left with Flybe’s, but he could have done a lot more damage over his whole turn...

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badams.mapsgtg wrote:

Pydro wrote:

No, because while cards under Savage Mana maintain their card type (e.g. environment card), they have no text so they are no longer devices.

That's what I was assuming, but I also know Handelabra supplies some digital-only quality-of-life features that mutate the card type line (e.g. how Caspit's Playground in Freedom Tower adds ", equipment" to ongoing cards) and I noticed the type line of cards under Savage Mana were not blanked out, so it seemed they might still be registering in-game as devices.


Both of these make sense. I'd be interested to see what it officially is.

Edit: but I'd have to say, I think Pydro has the right of it.

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The Fireside chats piece has not updated in regards to cards under Savage Mana or cards under other cards.  If an updated ruling was made MigrantP would have posted that in his recent update to his Fireside chats.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
Basketkeep
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I just got an unlock.

 

Played with Benchmark, Dark Watch Expatriette, Visionary Unleashed, Fugue State Parse, and Setting Sun Ra .vs. Challenge Fright Train, Friction, Ambuscade, Plague Rat, and Baron Blade in Omnitron IV.

 

On my first turn I played a Twist the Ether on Plague Rat, which pretty much gave me the upper hand for the rest of the game. I ended up with all my characters near 8 HP, and Baron Blade at 10. I already had tons of set up, and could have finished the game at anytime, but was way under my 30/15 quota. So for the next 30 or so minutes, I just kept playing Equipment and destroying Devices, until I was sure I had enough Equipment and Devices.

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What? What even IS this unlock requirement?! Besides PATENTLY RIDICULOUS


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
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Powerhound_2000
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You can thank Christopher for this and I suspect future unlocks will be just as devious. 


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
Missingno
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McBehrer wrote:

What? What even IS this unlock requirement?! Besides PATENTLY RIDICULOUS

It's MATH!


I'll put things in here later.

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I did this on my iOS installation using all of the available RevoCorp decks except Expat (who I'll likely bring back in when I try for the Steam achievement). My two non-RC decks were Omnitron-X and Freedom Six Unity. This meant that I needed 20 Equipment and 10 Devices to be destroyed. The latter being the sticking point as I wound up needing to wait out some deck reshuffles just to get enough in play at some point.

The plan was to intentionally knock out Unity as quickly as possible and hope for a Meteor Storm soon thereafter (which I finally got on like my 5th attempt at the setup). Why knock her out? So I could use her incap ability to kill devices while the Meteors prevented all damage. I brought Omnitron along to both speed up the Environment deck plays to find the Meteors and in the hope that I could pull off a Singularity while all available Equipment was in play to take out just about everything as soon as I stopped the Meteors. What I hadn't considered while setting things up was the headaches that Choke and Ray Manta would cause with Equipment destruction in the meantime.

In the end it was really just a slog - in retrospect I should have changed all of my display settings to speed up the constant "try to hit every target in every deck for 0 damage" kinds of things happening. I'll probably bring Expat along instead of Omnitron next time. She'll still have plenty of Equipment for the villains/environment to blow up and/or destroy on her own, but just knocking the number of Devices necessary is enough of a time saver that it's likely worth needing multiple games to get the right Environment plays. I'll probably keep Golem Unity around to get around Impulsion Beams slowing everything else down.

The trick to it turned out to be using a bunch of Tactical Communicators and Critical Multipliers to increase damage the bad guys would take and the heroes would do so that I could basically one-shot everybody as soon as damage could happen again. Piling up something like 70 Unlucky tokens for Setback to bounce damage back to baddies and having this set up to turn off the Meteors just before Plague Rat's turn helped too as he could set off all of these irreducible, instantly fatal pings.

Lots of boring setup leading to an extremely satisfying 2 minutes at the end.

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Ok, it took me all day, but I finally got it. I shuffled my heroes around a lot, and reset a bunch, but here's how the winning game went.

Villains:
Baron Blade - Fright Train - Ambuscade - Friction - Plague Rat

Heroes:
Sentinels (Adamant Idealist, Medico; normal Writhe, Mainstay) - Benchmark - Setback - Parse - ExPatriette

Environment: Temple of Zhu Long

I reset until he got something other than Impulsion Beam. I think I ended up with Omni-Blade this time.

Focus down Plague Rat, Friction, and then Ambuscade/Fright Train. Using Blackout on Plague Rat is super effective.

The main challenge was killing enough devices. I was sitting at 3 (the ones that start out in play) until Blade was the only one left. I actually had to heal him a bunch and creatively set people's health to keep him alive until he played the last 2, and I would have been unable to keep him around long enough if he hadn't done so on the last turn.

In retrospect, using Normal Dr. Medico would have been better, so I could heal him for more than 1 per turn.


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
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gossamerica2
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I'm slogging through an attempt using Meteor Storm & zillions of Unlucky tokens on Setback.  Just want to verify that I understand the wording correctly: I win this game (meeting the math criteria), then I play an equipment card in a different game, right?  I'd hate to mess this up and have to try again....

Powerhound_2000
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You play an equipment card in a separate game. 


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
TakeWalker
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I may just wait until Luminary's out digitally to get this one. c.c

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TakeWalker wrote:

I may just wait until Luminary's out digitally to get this one. c.c

 

I followed the advice upstream re the Biomancer/Benchmark method.  It was easy, though a tad tedious.  I almost lost Haka at one point, becasue SM took forever to get out.

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I tried a more Revocorp heavy version of that strategy. Basically, just took all 9 Revocorp characters + the Naturalist in Omnitron IV. Got wiped by the villains repeatedly, generally only taking down maybe 1 or 2 before losing. Clearly they Revocorp heroes need a lot more help, but I’m wondering if it can be done with more Revocorp decks (and thus fewer equipment plays required).

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Gus_Smedstad wrote:

I tried a more Revocorp heavy version of that strategy. Basically, just took all 9 Revocorp characters + the Naturalist in Omnitron IV. Got wiped by the villains repeatedly, generally only taking down maybe 1 or 2 before losing. Clearly they Revocorp heroes need a lot more help, but I’m wondering if it can be done with more Revocorp decks (and thus fewer equipment plays required).

Maybe switch Plague Rat for Grezer?

Honestly, once you're set up, it really doesn't take long.  I just had a dickens of a time setting up, becasue Haka's SM was about halfway through his deck.

 

Edit: accuracy

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Finally finished the slog.  PW Haka, Expat, Benchmark, Fugue Parse, & Setback vs. Friction, Blade, Fright Train, Ambuscade, and Plague Rat at Wagner Mars Base.  After dying horribly in the first attempt (didn't bring any villains down), I survived long enough for Meteor Storm to come out, then built up.  Eventually, Haka and Benchmark had all of their cards in play or in hand, and Setback was close, and had over 100 tokens.  Once there were enough devices out (and 2x High Risk Behavior), Haka dropped a Ground Pound, Expat skipped her turn to end the Meteor Storm, and Benchmark took out some Enticing Targets and hit Glamour a couple of times.

Silly me almost did myself in by forgetting about the two copies of Looking Up I had in play (to rack up tokens earlier in the game, and for fodder for ongoing destruction), and had to undo when he died.  Fortunately, Parse's Between the Lines allowed Benchmark to burn a Threat Neutralizer on one, and Segmentation Fault took out the other one.

Then Setback Exceeded Expectations and then some, with 2x +29 to each villain target -- taking out 5 devices, an Enticing Target, and the last four villains.  But crap, Glamour + Friction + Hippo is a problem....  Haka dropped another Ground Pound, but Baron Blade's incap spelled the end of Setback and Parse (all of those Critical Multiplier pumps I distributed among my heroes throughout the game...).  Expat Unloaded her Assault Rifle, Tactical Shotgun, & Prejudice to take Glamour off the board & weaken Hippo.  Now that Benchmark wasn't hindered by an Impulsion Beam, he could cut loose, and had no problem finishing Hippo & taking down Friction for the win.  One new game & equipment card later, and I got the variant.  After that slog, I think I'm going to have to take a break from Sentinels for a while.

Hmmm, I wonder if Wrong Time & Place would have been easier...

 

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With 100 tokens and lots of time to set up, I would have thought you’d have a Silver Linings in play, giving Setback 100+ HP if he fell down.

FearLord
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Honestly, I think it’s quicker and easier to scrap Ambascade and play at Omnitron IV. Benchmark makes the equipment requirement easy (His loadout Card lets you replay a bunch of equipment freely) so you basically just need to keep the game going long enough for the environment to play 7 devices.

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Gus_Smedstad wrote:

With 100 tokens and lots of time to set up, I would have thought you’d have a Silver Linings in play, giving Setback 100+ HP if he fell down.

I assume you can't go over his original starting HP...

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After trying repeatedly to be creative and losing miserably each time, I copied Badam’s strategy of only 4 Revocorp decks. It worked like a charm.

The key elements are playing in Omnitron IV (for unlimited device destruction), the Naturalist (for protection from the environment), Prime Warden Haka (to eat minions, and heal teammates on demand), and not playing with either Fright Train or Plague Rat. My losses (and there were a lot of them) occurred because those two beat me down before I could take control of the game. I think there still may be some flexibility in there, but those are the main points I think.

I’m not sure Grandpa Legacy is required, but his transfer of power use can make it easier for the Naturalist to dig for Environmental Allies. He’s got a fair number of “draw cards” cards, and the Hunted variant’s power lets you play a card.

It’s a huge slog. For me, the sticking point was destroying enough devices, since Benchmark can play 8-9 equipment a turn with the shuffle load out card. I also tended to forget to count while playing, so I wasn’t 100% sure I’d passed the 60 / 30 threshold, and I played a couple of extra rounds for safety’s sake. I sure didn’t want to wade through that game again, given how boring it is once only Biomancer is up.

It’s probably possible to substitute someone else for Biomancer as the final punching bag. They just have to be someone you can keep under control. Past a certain point, Haka can Ground Pound every turn and recover the cards by the time it’s his turn again, so the environment won’t kill your target for you. Prior to that, there’s always using Haka of Restoration on the villain to keep him alive.

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Took me about four or five tries, but managed it with the nine Revocorp decks + Ra Setting Sun in Omnitron IV.  Set up the villains with Ambuscade and Baron Blade at the end, and put Ra at the front.  I reset away Glamour and Impulsion beam in the opening,  and it really helps if Benchmark can put out his damage reduction/health recovery, Expatriette has her shotgun. My first ongoing destructions usually takes out Blade's Genetically Fused Physique.  Shock Dampeners were a priority target,  and Fright Train. By the end I was playing the damage race - Ra was piling on the damage bonuses and burning himself away with most extra plays and powers going his way at the beginning,  although don't forget to hit Plague Rat's handlers and Baron Blade's Negation Bands, Friction's Shock Dampeners, etc when doing area attack nuking.  Once you get a couple of the villains out of the way, you can start switching over to putting out Benchmark's hardware - keep an Overhaul so once you have a good number of pieces out,  you can pick them up and put them out again.  Ra can chip in his staff and Expatriette will want to keep putting out guns and flak jackets and ammo.  The rest is trying not to die before you get control of the fight,  there are so many devices between the environment and Blade that it's pretty hard not to kill a device a round (you're probably dead if you don't put out enough area damage to manage that).


--Warren

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I used the full RevoCorp composition, adding Omniton-X as the 5th. Omnitron IV as the environment. Got killed once or twice before I passed it.

 

Edit : Oh and I actually unlocked it on my next match, without Benchmark on my team. I just had to play a last equipment card.

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I found the Revocorp villains to be brutally hard without a team that’s more effective than the Revocorp heroes + Omnitron X. I gave up trying that setup because everyone kept dying without doing more than maybe taking down Plague Rat. The Revocorp heroes just aren’t very good at mitigating damage, and there’s a ton of that with the Revocorp villains, and even more with Omnitron IV’s devices.

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Omnitron X is really good at surviving this fight thanks to the right plating. If you have the right hardware on Becnhmark, you can Discard cards to heal 2 HP at a time, while having 1 armor. Discarding cards isn't a problem once he's geared up, because you get so much value out of them, and you get so much of them back in your hand.

Do not hesitate to burn omnitron's gear to get a villain down, it did wonders for me. Bechmark was the last man standing, and he was surviving Ambuscade's Nemeses, Baron Blade & Plague rat.

statue345
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Last seen: 16 hours 8 min ago
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Just so I know before I try, do the heroes actually have to personally destroy the devices or does it just matter that devices were destroyed?

MindWanderer
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Joined: Oct 29, 2015

They just have to be destroyed.  The condition as written is a bit misleading that way.


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statue345
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Last seen: 16 hours 8 min ago
Joined: Nov 13, 2018

Thank you very much

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