Snarky comments about the US election

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Pydro
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Snarky comments about the US election

It would be more fitting if the update on the upcoming OblivAeon comes out next Tuesday.


Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-Robert E. Howard, "The Tower of the Elephant"

Edited by: Craig on Dec 12 2016 - 8:25am
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I'm pretty sure the election results in the US will not result in the world coming to an end despite what some may think.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
phantaskippy
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Powerhound_2000 wrote:

I'm pretty sure the election results in the US will not result in the world coming to an end despite what some may think.  

 

That's not what my Aunt told me the Weekly World News said Nostradamus predicted.

 

Besides, the election won't occur, everyone knows the current lot will declare martial law and cancel the elections, just like the last two did.

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Regardless of the outcome of the election, about half the US will pledge to move to Canada, and by the end of 2017 approximately 0% will have done so.

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LewdDolphin21 wrote:

Regardless of the outcome of the election, about half the US will pledge to move to Canada, and by the end of 2017 approximately 0% will have done so.

And I'm sure the Canadians don't WANT any of those people to move there, anyway.

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EDIT: Spelling, and changing removing swear words. 

Ok. As a Canadian. You got understand something.We are alike in many ways. A lot of your culture (Entertainment especially) is a like.

But we are also different. You first must pass a test. 

1) Is Hockey the greatest sport?

2) What is our national beverage?

3) What is the worst city in Canada?

4) Who is our president?

5) What animals appear on our money?

6) Do you promsie not to act like silly-heads, and instead become more like us, and not try and force us to be like you? We're your neighboUrs, not some empty lot to park your cars. 

7) Do you know what we pay in taxes, how are health care system works, how we vote, what our police do, what jobs we are looking for, how our provinces differ?

8) Why Citizen Dawn matters?

9) What is the grestets sports franchise?

10) not a question, but Screw New York bagels. Accept the better kind: Montreal Style bagels.


I THOUGHT I was the the last Scion but it's actually .....

Craig
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1) Is Hockey the greatest sport?

Curling is, ya hoser.

2) What is our national beverage?

Maple syrup

3) What is the worst city in Canada?

It depends on whether you're in eastern or western Canada. It's Toronto either way, though.

4) Who is our president?

According to some businessmen, it's Justin Trudeau, and he's the worst President yet.

5) What animals appear on our money?

Caribou, beaver, loon, toon

6) Do you promsie not to act like silly-heads, and instead become more like us, and not try and force us to be like you? We're your neighboUrs, not some empty lot to park your cars.

Quiet, America's hat.

7) Do you know what we pay in taxes, how are health care system works, how we vote, what our police do, what jobs we are looking for, how our provinces differ?

The answer to all of this is "politeness."

8) Why Citizen Dawn matters?

Because she can't energy.

9) What is the grestets [sic] sports franchise?

The Newfoundland Grestets were formed in 1864 after someone wanted to sports. They've been sportsing ever since.

10) not a question, but Screw New York bagels. Accept the better kind: Montreal Style bagels.

Really?


Twitter: imprimis5. Follow away!

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Craig wrote:

8) Why Citizen Dawn matters?

Because she can't energy.

As a physicist/engineer, I have to say:

This wins everything.

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Trajector wrote:

 

Craig wrote:
8) Why Citizen Dawn matters?Because she can't energy.

 

As a physicist/engineer, I have to say:This wins everything.

DARNIT! I just got it.... I'm pretty slow....


I THOUGHT I was the the last Scion but it's actually .....

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I think this sign describes the election accurately.

 


" Ever had those days where you have amazing luck,
everything goes right, and you feel like the king of the world...
....And then you wake up?"
-Someone special, 2012

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Somehow, I feel like I need to apologize to everybody in the world.

Also, I have way more existential angst now than I did yesterday.

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People voted and it's what the majority of states wanted.   I don't see any need to apologize for what we have.   All countries have had their share of questionable leaders and we are no different.  This country will continue on and if he is that terrible he won't have a second term.


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
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Whatever the outcome was, the fact that no one here on the forum acted cruelly is what I liked. Though it might have slipped through, I never caught it. We were kind to one another, we helped, and cared for each other, and did nothing to show otherwise. I don't want or care who you voted for, or even if you voted. We all have our rights, opinions, and desires. The ability to set those aside so we can do good within our community is all I ask for, and we are not only doing it, we are doing it in stride.

 

Thank you everyone for being simultaniously thoughtful, kind, smart, and most importantly, silly. You Sentinels are the best of the best.

Now let's go Get those PRIME WARDENS!


I THOUGHT I was the the last Scion but it's actually .....

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UXM266 wrote:

Whatever the outcome was, the fact that no one here on the forum acted cruelly is what I liked. Though it might have slipped through, I never caught it. We were kind to one another, we helped, and cared for each other, and did nothing to show otherwise. I don't want or care who you voted for, or even if you voted. We all have our rights, opinions, and desires. The ability to set those aside so we can do good within our community is all I ask for, and we are not only doing it, we are doing it in stride. Thank you everyone for being simultaniously thoughtful, kind, smart, and most importantly, silly. You Sentinels are the best of the best.Now let's go Get those PRIME WARDENS!


Yeah definitely agree with this. Everyone here was really great about respecting that there's going to be a lot of different opinions about politics and that this was probably not the best place todebate them. As the campaign got particularly nasty it was a huge relief to have an outlet that was non-political and where everyone was generally remarkably civil and considerate.

My thanks to everyone on these forums!

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We are going to be living in exciting times.  Shaking up alliances, reorganizing the international powe structure, between Trump's preference of Russia and Israel to NATO and Brexit this is most likely a point that future history students will learn about as a time that re-shaped the planet.

 

As a lover of politics and history I'm actually excited to see what all comes of it.  Hopefully it doesn't go bad.

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"Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?"

- Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

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UXM266 wrote:

Whatever the outcome was, the fact that no one here on the forum acted cruelly is what I liked. Though it might have slipped through, I never caught it. We were kind to one another, we helped, and cared for each other, and did nothing to show otherwise. I don't want or care who you voted for, or even if you voted. We all have our rights, opinions, and desires. The ability to set those aside so we can do good within our community is all I ask for, and we are not only doing it, we are doing it in stride. Thank you everyone for being simultaniously thoughtful, kind, smart, and most importantly, silly. You Sentinels are the best of the best.Now let's go Get those PRIME WARDENS!

Indeed. This may be the best election thread I have ever seen.

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Honestly, I can't express my thoughts about this election in terms suitable for this site.

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dpt wrote:

Honestly, I can't express my thoughts about this election in terms suitable for this site.

Understood and appreciated, dpt.


"See, this is another sign of your tragic space dementia, all paranoid and crotchety. Breaks the heart." - Mal

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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

 

As a lover of politics and history I'm actually excited to see what all comes of it.  Hopefully it doesn't go bad

May god have mercy on us all if Chris Christie gets a major cabinet spot. I'm qualified to say that now that I live in New Jersy and honestly do not feel that is a controversial opinion.

Looking at Trumps 100 day plan, as a staunch independent myself, there are quite a few good items along with some questionable ones. The major thing to watch for is that I do not think it will be as easy to get his plans pushed through congress even with majority in both houses. And now that this election is over, keep in mind that Trump has historically been a New York Demo for most of his adult life. Unless he is handing over major policy decisions to Pence (*shudder*) and just doing the international and military work, some of the things hes put forth will see quite a lot pushback. And with only 52 Republican seats in the Senate, it's going to be much harder than folks expect to push things through there, especially when the filibuster comes back to haunt them.

Things like setting term limits on House and Senate seats and 5 year gaps between leaving congress and working as a lobbyist will russel some jimmies for sure.  The dismantling of environmental protections and re-granting subsities to coal and trashing the renewable energy grants is far more troubling to me personally. Clean Coal is like Non-Tar ciggarettes when filters were introduced, it's pretty foolish. There just is still too much money to be made out of coal for them to give it up so easily plain and simple.

Opening more ties with Russia urks some folks (and there are plenty of good reasons why), but history looks favorably on the Nixon/China situation so I'm more willing to see how this plays out before I jump the gun. I can not say the same for the promise to move the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem however. This one is a massive blunder should it come true. This has been on the table for decades now, and every single US president since has waived it due to security reasons (even G.W.B). This one I'm truely afraid of. With any luck, his now daily security breifings for the next few weeks will change his mind about doing this. The advisors and cabinet he chooses will be instrumental here.

Due to the obsructionist politics of Republicans over the past few years, Trump will be the one to appoint a replacement for Scallia on the US Supreme Court. This changes very little of the current blance of power as the current congress will likely choose someone very similar to him in views and rulings. But here is the reality of the current court folks. Ruth Bater Ginsburg is 83 years old and Steven Breyer is 78. They are the oldest members of the court and happen to be two of the most liberal ones when making rulings. Anthony Kennedy is 80 and has historically been a switch hitter in his rulings, but has a liberal streak when it comes to societal issues (like gay marriage for instance). There is a good chance that Ruth, either due to choice or failing health, will retire from the court within the next 4 years, though if she is the stubborn old shrew we all know she is, she will fight tooth and nail to keep the seat until the next election. But she may not have the choice if her health goes. Both Kennedy and Breyer could be in the same boat as they get older. Trump replacing Scallia is no major issue currently, but if Trump gets to replace Ruth, the court makes a big swing to the right on social issues. If Trump gets to replace Ruth and either Kennedy or Breyer, the court takes a massive swing for decades to come. The Supreme Court has had more impact on daily lives than ever in recent history and is only getting more relevant as all of these major social issues get heard by the court. This is something to watch very closely.

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I'm a little more concerned about the whole white nationalist thing.

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dpt wrote:

I'm a little more concerned about the whole white nationalist thing.

Keep in mind for laws to change, they need to be passed in Congress first. The Senate will still be a major hurdle to jump over. They have the majority, sure, but its only 52 seats. Gonna be hard to get the 60 needed to change or pass most bills there.

The KKK has to vote for someone. Heck, even the Clintons are good friends with a former Klan leader. I wouldn't be too worried about pro-Klan legislation passing through congress, even a Republican majority held one.

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Honestly I'm personally more bothered by people discussing the results in calm, collected terms than by people yelling abuse.

And I'm not talking about the fact that the KKK endorsed Trump. I'm talking about the fact that he, himself, ran a racist campaign, full of white nationalist callouts. Remember the time he pretended not to know who David Duke was? http://www.factcheck.org/2016/03/trumps-david-duke-amnesia/ (Hint: he knew. All the white nationalists properly understood that this was as close as he could come to explicitly endorsing them.) Remember when he retweeted a nazi-created meme? https://mic.com/articles/147711/donald-trump-s-star-of-david-hillary-cli... And I haven't even gotten to his explicitly racist proposals yet.

Foote wrote:
Heck, even the Clintons are good friends with a former Klan leader.
This is a right-wing manufactured outrage. Robert Byrd was deluded as a young man, yes. But, to his very great credit, he recognized that, and spent much of his career fighting for racial equality. Here's a rememberance by Eugene Robinson from 2010: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/28/AR201006... No one who honestly looks at that case can be outraged by the closeness between Clinton and Byrd, any more than they would think that Obama is a racist because he, too, was friends with Byrd. To the extent you are upset by this, it's because you have been manipulated.
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Also:

Foote wrote:
Keep in mind for laws to change, they need to be passed in Congress first.
It's not just laws: https://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnashrulla/racist-incidents-after-trumps-...

This is not normal.

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DPT, don't get me wrong here. I do not disagree with you really. I didn't vote Trump and I do understand your fears here. And hopefully the explicitly racist proposals do not get passed through congress. He can't just make them happen at whim.

About the swastika on the wall. I had assumed that was drawn by a non-Trump supporter in protest. I guess it could have been drawn sans-irony, but I wouldn't jump to conclusions there. Also, I'm not upset by the Bryd thing. I think my position on that was misunderstood. I'm pretty aware of his carreer and what he has done recently.

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In that link I posted, there are many, many examples of physical and verbal abuse of people that cannot possibly be ironic.

By the way, I hope that I'm calm enough now, three days after the election, to have this conversation here. Mods, please let me know if I slip up.

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I have a working theory of Trump's foreign policy vision.  (International politics and economy is my real passion)

I don't think this is the place for digging into it but A transition from a two-power standof (which we are still in) to a kind of harmonious oligarchical mob style turf division looks to be the direction he seems to be heading.

 

One thing that has always stood out to me is how much presidents, and especially their international policy vision change after they win and start getting real information and top secret breifings.

I expect Trump to change some of his policy, and McConnell has already come out strongly defending NATO, so it is most likely we won't see such a big shift in international policy.

But it could happen.  Israel is still big, and is a huge deal for the people that voted Trump in, and Putin has made great effort to ally with Israel.  Trump wants to get in on that action.

I've floated conversation about this to my Trump supporting acquaintances and friends and you might be surprised how many would prefer to ally with Israel and Russia over NATO.  Even a good number of non-Trump supporters see that as a good thing.  Fewer, but a good number even like the idea that smaller countries that threaten to destabilize their region should pay financially when we come in and break up their messes in their land.

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Is this the kind of thing you're talking about, phantaskippy?

https://medium.com/@theonlytoby/history-tells-us-what-will-happen-next-with-brexit-trump-a3fefd154714#.180l1kcr4

The author is not very sanguine about the "harmonious" part of what you wrote.

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Urgh.

Something to consider regarding the discussion Foote and dpt have been having is that laws don't actually have to change at all for bigotry to become more normalized in society. Think about every time you hear in the news about a "rape culture" in a sports team or a club, and then magnify that nationally. These things may against the law, but if nobody is willing to prosecute and people who might otherwise have hesitated decide to push some boundaries, we could be looking at some very dark times for our LGBT/non-white/non-Christian/immigrant friends. Time will tell, but in this matter it is CRITICALLY important to catch the problem early. Please, everybody, remember to keep standing up for tolerance and equality. This community is fantastic about doing so on these boards. I want the rest of America to see your example!

phantaskippy wrote:

A transition from a two-power standof (which we are still in) to a kind of harmonious oligarchical mob style turf division looks to be the direction he seems to be heading. 

One thing that has always stood out to me is how much presidents, and especially their international policy vision change after they win and start getting real information and top secret breifings.


Trump's foreign policy ideas remind me a bit of the pre-WWI world. A multipolar scenario with several imperialist powers, and alliances negotiated on a heavily transactional basis. His promise to put "America first" and pull back from commitments with Baltic and Pacific states give Russia, China, and perhaps others a chance to step into the leadership vacuum we leave behind. I'm strongly for reducing the American defense footprint due to the incredible level of bloat and disturbing forms of "innovation" I've seen in the American military industry. But we have to make sure that transition is orderly, which, honestly, might take a generation. In the meantime, we'll have a Commander in Chief who has already established a reputation for asking, in military briefings, "what about the nuclear option?" That attitude's beyond bad - it's an existential threat to humanity.

In terms of his changing his mind after getting the classified briefings, I learned last night that he walked out of a briefing that fingered Russia for hacking the DNC, and said that he simply didn't believe the intelligence. So, yeah, I don't expect his outlook to change based on expert opinions.

In the meantime, NOW is the time we need to start drastic actions to curb, mitigate, and adapt to global warming. The economic, societal, and defense implications of climate change over the next fifty to one hundred years are scary. Trump's intention to "unleash coal" is extremely regressive (and misguided; it's the market ruining the coal industry, not Obama). He's looking at Sarah "Drill, Baby, Drill" Palin for Secretary of the Interior. He's going to cut NASA's funding for Earth science because he doesn't want to hear about climate change.

I understand that a lot of Americans were frustrated, and they wanted a big shakeup. Honestly, I get that, and I'd love to gut and remake Congress, the DoD, the tax system, and Wall Street myself. The irony is that, though Trump ran as the "flip the board" candidate, his policy proposals are extremely regressive corporatist fare and likely to do the most damage to the very people who supported him.

When the best thing I can say about Donald Trump is that he says so many falsehoods, maybe he's NOT going to do all the terrible things he said he would, I think we are in for a tough four years. The only question is how bad. What scares me is the range of badness I think we could encounter. We know so little about Trump's potential decisions that I think we could have four years of cartoon buffoonery...or a nuclear war.

I'll hope for the buffoonery. And I'll vote next time. And I'll donate to the SPLC and ACLU and Union of Concerned Scientists. And I'll keep calling my representatives. And when I see darkness, I'll try to shine a light.

I hope it's enough for us to survive, and that the we leave a world to my hypothetical children.

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I try to find words. Good words, apropriate for this site. I can't.

I am not a US citizen. Nor do I live here, or plan to do. But your elections affected the whole world.

To those of you who did not vote Trump, like the Doctor I'd say I am sorry. I am so sorry. Please, be courageous. Fight for the values you hold dear. You are not alone.

To those who voted Trump, I am sorry, so so sorry. Granted wishes turn sour.

To those who did not vote - I am not sorry.

Today, I had long conversations with many "hard core" supporters of democracy, here in my country. Everything is different today. We have lost something, "thanks" to what hapenned in your country. We have lost our faith in the democratic ideal. We have lost our faith in the ability of our values of reason, openness and acceptance of others to coexist constructively with different values. We have lost the faith that we could build the world we want through peace and debate. I have heard - and said - words that I never thought any of us would say, or even think. Words that the Doctor would not approve of.

It's strange how events sculpt the mind. What Trump does next is not important, he is not important - his election was enough to change peaceful "leftists" in ... something else. Maybe it was time to grow up. Maybe we gazed too long into the abyss.

Historical moment, indeed. Winter has come.

But, as the mustachoed philosopher said : when dragons rise, heroes are made.

Interesting years ahead.

I need another drink. I'll toast to you.

 

 


Any view of things that is not strange is false - Neil Gaiman

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The Sound of Trees, can I ask what your country is?

I would say the bit about changing peaceful leftists a little differently. I would say that it changed passive liberals into determined radicals. That means different things for different people.

I am happy to accept your toast.

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Not to get political, but did anyone else notice that "the Donald" is nine letters?

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I am from France, dpt.


Any view of things that is not strange is false - Neil Gaiman

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carnilius wrote:

Not to get political, but did anyone else notice that "the Donald" is nine letters?

.... So.... what you're saying is that The ARG is not over?


I THOUGHT I was the the last Scion but it's actually .....

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TheSoundOfTrees wrote:
I am from France, dpt.
You have an opportunity here! You can take this as an awakening that, yes, it can happen in France, too, BEFORE Le Pen is elected president. You can go and get involved in anti-racist groups, work on combating anti-Semitic, anti-immigrant, and anti-poor rhetoric.

Imagine how you would feel if Marie Le Pen came into power. Act like that now.

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Foote wrote:
I had assumed that was drawn by a non-Trump supporter in protest. I guess it could have been drawn sans-irony, but I wouldn't jump to conclusions there.
The more I think about this, the more I'm bothered by it. It really beggars belief that anyone would draw a swasticka as an ironic act. Fantasy author Jim C. Hines compiled a small collection of abuse reports that he could confirm:

http://www.jimchines.com/2016/11/documented-instances-of-harassment-and-a-request-to-trump-supporters/

As Jim says, "There are so, so many more reports out there of people being harassed and attacked. I could spend all weekend adding to this list of documented incidents." Shaun King is the real clearinghouse here, but there are so, so many reports that it takes forever to sort through.

So, Foote, you seem to be an intelligent guy that likes to think about the world. But still you repeated two right-wing distorted stories, without sufficiently looking into them. Can I humbly suggest you look at your information sources and examine whether you are skeptical enough?

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Look, I just said what my assumption was when I too saw that picture posted elsewhere online. I'm not parroting right-wing or left-wing storries, just what my first thought was. I'm pretty sure my observation was without any political leaning. I never even suggested that things like that are not happening at all, and if you think I did, I feel you are trying way to hard to pick a fight with someone who's on your side.

So I'm unsure here of what information sources you think I'm speaking about or what you want me to be more skeptical of. I have a degree in media theory so I'm pretty confident in my abilities to analyse objectivly the information I read and hear and avoid the pitfalls of only seeking out information that jives with my own personal views or opinions. To call me skeptical of anything I hear is an understatement, so may I humbly suggest a little benefit of the doubt from you that other folks around the forums can form inteligent and reasoned opinions even if they may different than your own? And I say that pretty confirdent that we are on the same side of this thing in the first place, which is why your response is a little baffling to me.

It really beggars belief that anyone would draw a swasticka as an ironic act

Wouldn't you agree that it should irk the hell out of anyone to draw that stuff regardless of intent? Honestly, it doesn't matter why it was drawn, and maybe I should have made that my point instead of expressing that I thought it was drawn out of protest instead of scincerity.

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Foote wrote:

It really beggars belief that anyone would draw a swasticka as an ironic act

Wouldn't you agree that it should irk the hell out of anyone to draw that stuff regardless of intent? Honestly, it doesn't matter why it was drawn, and maybe I should have made that my point instead of expressing that I thought it was drawn out of protest instead of scincerity.


well, that's not quite true. Historical accuracy (e.g. Schindler's List) is a valid reason.

"Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?"

- Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

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Foote, my apologies for my comments about the swastika. Thinking back, my initial (naive) reaction to the first report I saw of a swastika was also that it was written ironically.

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Trajector wrote:
Something to consider regarding the discussion Foote and dpt have been having is that laws don't actually have to change at all for bigotry to become more normalized in society. Think about every time you hear in the news about a "rape culture" in a sports team or a club, and then magnify that nationally. These things may against the law, but if nobody is willing to prosecute and people who might otherwise have hesitated decide to push some boundaries, we could be looking at some very dark times for our LGBT/non-white/non-Christian/immigrant friends. Time will tell, but in this matter it is CRITICALLY important to catch the problem early. Please, everybody, remember to keep standing up for tolerance and equality. This community is fantastic about doing so on these boards. I want the rest of America to see your example!
Yes... "Trump-as-President" doesn't directly cause me all that much concern.  The rest of the world certainly shares the belief that he's a buffoon, even to the point where China is brushing off his Taiwan call, whwhich they would have considered a major insult from any other president.  And the Republican congress won't let him get away with anything they wouldn't accept from any other Republican president.  (Although I certainly have opinions about the direction the country has gone the last couple of times the Republican party held both branches, this would have been exacerbated with someone like Cruz.)

 

What really concerns me is "Trump-as-role-model."  The day after his election saw a giant spike in hate crimes and harassment.  The following weeks haven't been much better.  It's going to take a lot of work to get back to the point we were even earlier this year as far as sexism and racism go.  And religious discrimination, well... that was already getting worse, not better, and I just hope we can survive the next few years without opening Muslim internment camps.  Fortunately, a lot of people are very aware and very vocal about the parallels between Trump's America and Hitler's Germany, so hopefully we'll do better this time than we did during WWII.


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MindWanderer wrote:
And the Republican congress won't let him get away with anything they wouldn't accept from any other Republican president.

The problem is that what the Republican congress wants is pretty much just as bad as what Trump wants, if perhaps in slightly different ways.

I'm a lower class person with a lower class elderly disabled mother I care for where without a lot of the public assistance that Republicans want to cut we will literally have no other means available to gain the income to survive, basically. There are no jobs available for me that pay enough for me to afford to care for myself, let alone adding affording my mom and her health concerns on top of it. (And said job situation will of course get worse thanks to the economic policies the Republicans want to enact.)

Then add on the attacks to Roe vs. Wade, the FADA thing, the cutbacks to climate change mitigation... the change to the EPA is actually a big one for me, too. GE poisoned my city with toxic waste decades back and has basically required being dragged along like a recalcitrant child the entire time since then to do any sort of cleanups of their mess, and that's with the EPA helping us drag them. Now I worry that under the new management the EPA will decide we're being poor meanies to GE and we should "take the responsibility" of cleaning it up ourselves if we want it done... which of course is not only morally wrong but literally impossible since we just can't afford that much money as a city.

MindWanderer wrote:
It's going to take a lot of work to get back to the point we were even earlier this year as far as sexism and racism go.

The fact that we elected Trump in the first place makes me wonder if we ever made that progress with those things to begin with, or if it only superficially looked like we had because people weren't allowed for a long time to say what they still continued thinking.


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I've been running a test since Trump won, because I wanted to know if Trump's authortarian tone to his rhetoric was something people actually liked or something they didn't take seriously.  What I found was rather shocking to me.

Living in Western PA, which despite reality still sees itself as coal country and very blue collar.  I know a lot of people that voted for Trump and I know a lot of people who are very worried about their rights and freedom under a Trump Presidency.

 

The Trump voters believe that his race and gender rhetoric isn't all him, that much of it was foisted on him by the Party and the media.  Which there is some basis to when you look at this stances and words on things like marriage equality and abortion rights, he's careless with words that then get clarified by his campaign as being party line.

His softenning stance on immigration and muslims, and by softenning, I mean a wall of silence and potential abandonment of promises he's made on those matters, may signal that like a great many things he said, they were strictly for the election.

Like he said when asked if he regretted the tone the campaign took and he said "no, we won."

But anyways, back to my test.

I've been running past people a scenario I think lines up with Trumps words and prior actions for our foreign political and economic policy, where we pull away from NATO and more closely ally with Israel and Russia, and take on more of a two big powrs model, similar to a city divided by two mafia families that keep a peace between them.

In this model when countries cause trouble, or terrorists set up in your country the 2 big guys would come put that down, and then you would pay for it, trade deals, resource control, basically the stuff we did in South America not that long ago.  Larger countries would have to tow the line, as the 2 biggest military powers suddenly stand together and keep them from rising up.

What surprised me is how many people, including a good number of people who opposed Trump favor that model to what we do now.  They want a more authoritarian leader, and an American that is more of an international strongman.

Obviously I think this is largely because the promise of a safer, and more profitable America sounds good, while ignorance of history protects them from realizing how that modl turns out.

Americans are more and more ready to be the bad guy, because they see our curent America as weak and willing to be pushed around.

I've heard a lot of ridicule of "Coal country" Trump voters because the think coal jobs are going to come back.  But most of the ones I have spoken too or even connect to second hand don't believe those jobs are coming back.  They voted for a stronger America internationally, and a slowing down ofinternal change.  They see an America simultaneously moving farther away from one they recognize internally and becoming less of a stand alone powe and more as the member of a comittee that pays all the bills but has less and less control.

Frankly, I find the social and political sphere incredibly interesting right now.  

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The death of democracy comes from an uneducated electorate.

What surprised me is how many people, including a good number of people who opposed Trump favor that model to what we do now.  They want a more authoritarian leader, and an American that is more of an international strongman.

Obviously I think this is largely because the promise of a safer, and more profitable America sounds good, while ignorance of history protects them from realizing how that modl turns out.

Yup.

-------------------

Most anyone who pays attention knows that coal isn't coming back. It's damn near impossible just on market factors alone. Coal is far too expensive and diminishing quickly while there are cheaper, cleaner alternatives that are growing rapidly. No investor anywhere is going to back coal, not even if Congress started to provide massive subsities for it like we do with Corn. But make no mistake the rhetoric was that those jobs would be coming back, when it should have been "we can make new jobs for you". Folks got conned and I almost have sympathy for them.

-------------------

Changes to the EPA and potentially backing out of other international climate treaties is worrying. However, there is hope, and again, the market is playing a big factor. Places like New Jersy and the goofy state of Florida are leading the way in cleaner power for cheaper costs, and in both cases voters and investors are backing these projects. Solar Panels that are better and less costly are poping up everywhere in Jersy, and once these things hit the larger market the demand will be there, forcing the hand of energy companies everywhere. It's no immediate substitute for what the EPA does, surely, but a weakened or even a disbanded EPA will not turn the tide off of market friendly clean energy for a consumer market. Also note that Trumps daughter has a very friendly view on climate change and has a lot of say with her father.

 

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Foote wrote:
...Places like New Jersy and the goofy state of Florida are leading the way in cleaner power for cheaper costs, and in both cases voters and investors are backing these projects. ...
I thought the governor of Florida was a big-time climate change denier, including banning the use of the term "climate change"? Are you talking about a different level?
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In regards to climate change in the past long before the election, Trump has realized it is an issue.  To be honest, most of his viewpoints before this election followed more DNC viewpoints and heck he was a member of it for a time.    Doesn't make him fit to be where he is regardless but there is at least some hope he is more moderate then what we've been led to believe.   Though I have the sinking feeling Trump is going to get himself impeached and removed from office because he won't stop running his own business.   At which point we will be left with Pence as President. 

 

Side note: This thread has lost its initial snarkiness.

 


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When you tolerate non-serious discussion, the more nefarious serious discussion gains a foothold.  The end is nigh.

As for Florids, their politics are a hot mess.  But that's what you get with the bizarre make-up of Florida's population and industry.  They have struggles politically for clean energy, but politics don't control everything.  This Article is a great, quick place to see how clean energy in Florida differs from the perception.

 

It has been my contention that much of the problems in our society right now are caused or made worse by the gap between our technology and our adjustment to it.  Our technology is rocketing ahead right now, and we (the people as a whole) are woefully unprepared when it comes to leading a world with this new technology.

I think the election did a great job of showing just how big that gap has grown.  

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dpt wrote:
Foote wrote:
...Places like New Jersy and the goofy state of Florida are leading the way in cleaner power for cheaper costs, and in both cases voters and investors are backing these projects. ...

 

I thought the governor of Florida was a big-time climate change denier, including banning the use of the term "climate change"? Are you talking about a different level?

I do not know much about the gov of Florida.

http://www.utilitydive.com/news/floridas-amendment-1-defeat-shows-why-solar-wont-be-stopped-trump-or-no/430373/

Here is a link to a story I shared on FB the other week. It's worth a read and explains the situation between the people and the utilities far better than I could. It's my understanding that the governor, regardless of what he thinks, won't have much impact on curtailing the marketplace when there is demand and the product is cheap and effecient enough.

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Powerhound_2000 wrote:

Though I have the sinking feeling Trump is going to get himself impeached and removed from office because he won't stop running his own business.  

A blind trust is not valid when the trustee is a relative. If his assets are not liquidated or put into a true blind trust, then it's impossible to be a public servant at the highest level and serve in good faith, not to mention his hotel down the street from the White House would be in constant violation of the Constitution's emolument clause the entire time. 

Keep in mind that we, as citizens, do not actually vote for a president. We vote for Electors who vote on our behalf (it's always surprising to me how few people know that basic function of our system). The purpose of those Electors are, ideally, to be guardians against potential charismatic but nefarious leaders who capture public. You can read all about the ideas and thoughts behind this in the Federalist Papers (#10 IIRC was written by Madison who lays out the rational behind this). Now, in my mind, If our Electors know anything about the Constitution or their duty within, they have every right under the 1st Admendment to vote however they choose on Dec. 19 regardless of their pledged support (called Faithless Electors). Faithless Electors have been few and far between in history and have never changed the outcome of an election. However, we havn't had a president-elect before who would be in violation of the Constitution from the second he is sworn in either. If the Electors are actually aware of their Constitutional duty, they would be forced to vote against Trump and likely instill a Clinton/Pence White House.

But, like most folks, I'll bet no one really knows their Constitutional duty or rights, and the system put in place will fail to succeed because of a lack of education and knowledge of their position.

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It will be interesting to see what happens with the EC Dec 19th.  


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There are some problems with rooftop solar being rebated for electricity they put into the grid.

One is that utility models are based on consumption and profits from that are allocated to infrastructure.  Some places are changing that, charging everyone a flat rate for using the grid, and then for consumption.  That unfortunately does hurt low income people who use less to cut their bills, and lower cost on wealthier people who use more.

Another is the problem of time, usage and storage.  Solar gives best output when consumption is lower, and at night when energy use climbs it produces nothing.  Storing solar energy is in the baby stage, with things like molten salt batteries leading the way currently and hydrogen fuel cells in development.  But without the ability to store that electricity for night use you are looking at cutting daytime power generation and stepping up night generation from non-solar sources.  That is not a sustainable model, because the cost of alterring the prduction a plant is currently creating is prohibitive on a ramp up, ramp down every day model.

Companies want to protect their own and own the power production, they don't want us making power.

People don't want to be charged for infrastructure and don't realize (or really care) about the difficulty rooftop solar creates for utilities.

The answer is two fold.
1. The technology that is currently coming, ways to store solar energy for night consumption.

2.  Creating ways to charge people for the infrastructure but still pay them for adding to the grid.

 

Longterm the generation of power through residential space is a fantastic thing.  But getting there is going to take technology advancing and more importantly, willingness to create fair new models of payment, something neither the people or the utility companies currently want to do.

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Powerhound_2000 wrote:

It will be interesting to see what happens with the EC Dec 19th.  

Honestly, no it won't. It'll be business as usuall.

Look, an elector from Texas up and resigned the other week because he didn't want to vote for Trump but also didn't want to disregard the "will of the people". That alone should tell you exactly how little the actual electors know about their duty and what is Constitutionally allowed and required. Some states actually have fines for faithless electors, or rules to have them removed from the vote count. However none of that has ever been challenged in court and I'd bet the farm that the 1st Admendment upholds the nessesity of faithless elector votes and finds such punishments unconstitutional.

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