Santa Guise power questions and another Guise question about Selling Out

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Powerhound_2000
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Santa Guise power questions and another Guise question about Selling Out

So we have this new promo Santa Guise which has two powers:

1.  Put the top card of each hero deck face-down in their play area

2.  One player may flip all face-down cards in their play area, treating them as if they just came into play.  

 

My questions on Santa Guise powers.   Would the second power trigger affects like Negative Energy Field or Positive Energy field?   Would it bypass cards that prevent card play like Hostage Situation?  Would Limited cards that are revealed which are already in play be considered destroyed or do they just go immediately to the trash?   Also a more specific example if a limited card like Inspiring Presense came out with one already in play would all hero targets still regain one HP?   If Guise is incapped do the face-down cards for other heroes stay in play?(Maybe this is answered by his incap side) Can players look at the face-down cards in their play area?(I assume the idea is they are kept secret but just curious if you could peek)

 

To my other more general Guise question    I think this should work but wanted to ask.   I play Selling Out on Guise's turn and discard a one-shot at the end of the environment turn to get three one-shot plays.   With the last card play I use Retcon to destroy Selling Out and choosing to play a card I put down Selling Out.   If that's allowed I assume I can discard another card since we are still at the end of the environment turn and then play three other cards sharing a keyword with what I discarded.

 

 


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Edited by: Powerhound_2000 on Nov 17 2015 - 12:43pm
cnranger
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Powerhound_2000 wrote:

Can players look at the face-down cards in their play area?(I assume the idea is they are kept secret but just curious if you could peek)   

 

Only if you want to ruin the surprise of what Santa brought you. Sure you'll try and act surprised but we'll all know you aren't being genuine.

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cnranger wrote:

   Only if you want to ruin the surprise of what Santa brought you. Sure you'll try and act surprised but we'll all know you aren't being genuine.

So what would be the equivalent of shaking the box?

Ronway
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Officially, you are not allowed to look at face down cards.

If Guise is incapped, all face down cards remain face down in their respective play areas.

Yes you can do that with Selling Out.

On a phone, so that's the best I am posting for now.

Powerhound_2000
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Thanks Ronway.  Still have these ones no one has commented on:

Would the second power trigger affects like Negative Energy Field or Positive Energy field?  

Would it bypass cards that prevent card play like Hostage Situation?  

Would Limited cards that are revealed which are already in play be considered destroyed or do they just go immediately to the trash?  

Also a more specific example if a limited card like Inspiring Presense came out with one already in play would all hero targets still regain one HP?  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
Ronway
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Powerhound_2000 wrote:

Would the second power trigger affects like Negative Energy Field or Positive Energy field?  

Those trigger on being played. The first power puts cards into a play area, which is not playing. While the second power acts as if the card had just been put into play. So neither effect would trigger.

Powerhound_2000 wrote:

Would it bypass cards that prevent card play like Hostage Situation?  

Yep!

Powerhound_2000 wrote:

Would Limited cards that are revealed which are already in play be considered destroyed or do they just go immediately to the trash?  

It'll go straight into the trash. 

Powerhound_2000 wrote:

Also a more specific example if a limited card like Inspiring Presense came out with one already in play would all hero targets still regain one HP?  

No HP will be regained.

Powerhound_2000
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That's mostly what I thought would be the case so thanks for the confirmation.   


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Ameena
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As I see it, it sounds basically like a delayed version of Omni-10's Timeshift (his base power) - it works exactly the same way except you don't reveal the actual card face right after you move it from the deck.


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Powerhound_2000
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Well with timeshift you can choose to discard it.   In this case you have to play it if possible if you are chosen to reveal your cards.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
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Oh yeah, good point. Okay, it's like a delayed version of Timeshift if Timeshift were to only tell you to put the card into play ;).


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At first I thought this new power seems kind of weak, but it's actuallly very similar to his base power, because he still kinda gets a draw, or a play, depending on choices, just no base damage.

I would think it would be better to have at least 2 facedown cards in front of everyone before you start flipping them. If everyone only gets 1 facedown, and then several power uses to flip them all up one by one, you've used 4-6 power uses for one extra card play per hero, which feels like a little bit of waste. But as soon as everyone is flipping up 2 or more, it feels worthwhile.

I just looked at all the cards in his deck, and not many of them give him an extra power use, do they? Just "I Can Do That Too!" and maybe "Uh, Yeah, I'm That Guy" if that hero has an ongoing that gives extra powers (Like Embolden)

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Hey, Guise can use I Can Do That Too! on himself, right?

 

 

Anyways, quick math.  If there are H heroes, then Guise can "play" N extra cards per hero in N+H rounds.  That's N*H cards in N+H turns.  So if N*H / N+H > 1, then Santa Guise is more efficient than Timeshift.

 

If N = 1, then the play rate is .75, .8, or .833 for 3, 4, or 5 heroes.

If N = 2, then the play rate is 1.2, 1.33, or 1.43.

If N = 3, then the play rate is 1.5, 1.71, or 1.88

If N = 4, then the play rate is 1.71, 2, or 2.22

If N = 5, then the play rate is 1.88, 2.22, or 2.5

 

So, fairly obviously, 2 or more presents will get you a better return than Timeshift.  The longer you wait, the bigger your payoff is.  Of course, you run a higher chance of the game ending before you get a chance to do anything.


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Could Guise also use "Uh, Yeah, I'm That Guy!" on himself, too, to get an extra power use? I forget whether that one says you can only play it on other heroes.

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Uh, Yeah, I'm that Guy! has to used on another player so it couldn't be used on the person who is playing Guise.


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Natediggadoggity
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I'm curious about "Uh Yeah, I'm That Guy". if another hero has Embolden on them. Does Guise have to choose whether or not to take 2 damage from Fanatic or destroy "Yeah, I'm That Guy" at the end of his turn? Since it copies all text from all the cards in play at that time, I assume that would be the case.

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The copy of the test by Guise would not have a hero target associated with it so no one can take the damage.   Due to that the damage and destruction triggers can't happen.  If you did use an ability from an Ongoing like Battlefield Experience you would have to destroy Uh, Yeah, I'm That Guy!


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Yes, Uh, Yeah has all the text of the other ongoings, including the damage/destroy condition of Embolden.

EDIT: Ninja'ed while writing that single line. Curse you Dr Who for making me watch you!

I disagree. Embolden would be on Guise, changing him to be "the hero target" referred to by Embolden and giving him the choice. Hmmmm, I can see your point though. I guess the question is does "next to" and "in the play area of" count as the same thing?

 

 


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Powerhound_2000
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You choose a hero target when Embolden comes into play and Uh, Yeah, I'm That Guy doesn't do any of that.  So it doesn't have a hero target to even deal damage to.

edit; I could see it playing out that because there is no hero target to deal damage to that Uh, Yeah, I'm That Guy! just gets destroyed.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
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Powerhound_2000 wrote:

You choose a hero target when Embolden comes into play and Uh, Yeah, I'm That Guy doesn't do any of that.  So it doesn't have a hero target to even deal damage to.edit; I could see it playing out that because there is ko hero target to deal damage to that Uh, Yeah, I'm That Guy! just gets destroyed.  

If there is no hero next to the card, then at the end of what hero turn would the destruction option come up?

They may decide to have Embolden text copied by Uh, Yeah treat Guise as being next to Uh, yeah, but if not then all parts of the copied Embolden text would fail and do nothing.

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More likely to me is that I see the text of Embolden failing for Uh Yeah I'm That Guy!


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That is the appropriate way to deal with it by wording.  The App may deal with it differently though, until then I'd say it fails.