Prime war

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Rabit
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Spiff wrote:

After making my snarky comment, I realized that I think the game probably would be better if it were competition-adjacent, with a game master running his friends through a fun, engaging, story-driven challenge.  But that's not Tactics (at least, as it stands now).

Honestly, it is when I play the villain. smiley I actually have a friend who is competitive and doesn't like playing Tactics with me on their team, because I play in character.

So unless I'm playing someone like Bunker, I'm probably not making the best tactical decisions but doing something fun and interesting that is in character.

 

(There's a reason I don't play in tournaments...)


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tyleradiaz
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Same. It might be my gm experience, but I DON'T play to win as the villain. I play to keep it looking as if I could win at any moment. Because it's no fun to me if I play competitively as it is now. Maybe in prime war, but not like this.

Bas
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FWIW, I hope that the Prime War scenarios will show some more character/storyline development, as that felt a bit thin in Tactics (if only because there is less opportunity to show card-art). Personally I do think that Prime War/Ennead will be more colorfull and action-packed than Broken City/For Profit and will allow way more storyline progression and as such am really looking forward to it. 

Perhaps an idea for the pot: what about including an app with or shortly after Prime War to release, make or generate additional, fan-made or random scenarios? Released scenarios by themselves (without the in between comic-book stuff) could already suggest a story-progression similar to the many cards in SotM. Furthermore, this could also be a nice medium to release tournament maps etc.

Regarding timeline, I fear we are talking a kickstarter in February and a year on top of that for release. However, this time I sure hope that GtG uses it's ability to hype things up during the kickstarter and continues that until delivery, even if it is just a snippit of (unfinished) art, hero power, game-mechanic to show that they are either not rushing things or suffering from problem-avoiding behavior (which long silences, a delay and then a fizzle tends to suggest). In other words: this time round, please keep us informed as things progress/develop!

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I don't think we're going to see another Kickstarter for this; given that they already had a preorder campaign for Sentinel Tactics Core Set #2, I imagine they already have the money to make Sentinel Tactics Core Set #2. There may well be a delay in its release due to the change, but not a year-long one.


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BlueHairedMeerkat wrote:

I don't think we're going to see another Kickstarter for this; given that they already had a preorder campaign for Sentinel Tactics Core Set #2, I imagine they already have the money to make Sentinel Tactics Core Set #2. There may well be a delay in its release due to the change, but not a year-long one.

and this is why I am interested in knowing a rough timeline of what they are thinking even if it's not exactly what will happen


My wife thinks Sentinels is ruining our marriage. I think she doesnt know what shes talking about because she wont sit down to play it

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Hard to make an informed decision on getting a refund until they say something more, like when we might get the product, what is in for those that  are letting them use thier miney for years interest free, and are they charging for a conversion kit or will it be free for those that have preordered? So far no word on this, and i am willing to bet money, if no one had asked at the gencon panel about tactic, we would have only heard about orime war in jan when they delayed tactics again. So far greater than games customer service when it comes to the tactics preordered has sucked. We have to beg for updates which are minths or now half a year apart. They got the money so now they will use it for other projects and will keep us updated if and when they fill like it, which it seems they have not felt like it recently.

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I also have to agree with Godzilla.  I am a HUGE G>G fan, I mean most of us who are here are.  I've been around since the start and love them so much I've dumped hundreds in them over the years.  I normally tolerate a lot but even I question this update.  I mean I parted with nearly $170 Feb 2015.  When this game was initially delayed closer to the expected launch for the major overhaul I had full faith in the guys and just said to myself, "Oh well, it happens".  I knew nearly a year delay was a lot but would likely make sense and more then worth it and they told us their full plans including new time line.  This time though they make a huge decision to throw out something they said last time was going back to the drawing board and was going to take months of redesign to now do the same thing but say we're starting basically from scratch and give us nothing to go from.  No concrete details of play style or who else is included in the games such as all of the characters for this amount of money.  I mean seriously will this fully be a even swap out to what I already ordered ad paid for.  Also No time line to go from period.  The newest estimate given was Junuary 2017 nearly two years after most of us paid, how much of a delay are we talking here.  March 2017 or something even more like summer 2017 so over a year from now and nearly 2 and a half years from when we pre-ordered and paid.  Also I am never a fan of simply saying "we're working on something for our true believers"  What is that.  Please tell me because it will directly influence my decision of if I need a refund.  No offense, like I said, I love G>G, but I know they are not a fan of exclusives.  With the first Sentinel Tactics on KS, we were told the biggest bonus to paying more there was of course getting it first and the rare 8 extra cards that wouldn't be released anywhere else but conventions and they later they listed on their online store for less then $10.  It seemed wrong, who's to say our big reward for trusting and giving up our funds over two years in advance where interest is being collected isn't equally tiny and pointless.  For truly help them and trust in them, I want to know a little more about what is going on,  I never would have ever considered I'd want to ask any sort of refund from G>G ever, but this does have me questioning things as I could really use the extra funds now. 
 
Please G>G, respect back your true fans and give us a little more to go off of to make well informed decisions.

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No concrete details of play style or who else is included in the games

The play style will still be Tactics, just with polished and updated rules. They said at least that much, so I wouldn't expect a completley different game than the first set, just hopefully a more polished version (think original release SotM compared to the later released Enhanced Edition).

They listed a ton of characters already. Announced characters include 6 Prime Wardens (Tempest, Cap Cosmic, Haka, Fanatic, Argent Adept, Sky Scraper), Apostate, Blood Countess, and the entire Ennead (Shu, Set, Isis, Osiris, Nuit, Neph, Tefnut, Atum, Geb). Thats 17 characters announced right there, and theres a chance that number will actually be higher.

Hope that helps cement some of the announced details.

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Foote wrote:

No concrete details of play style or who else is included in the games

The play style will still be Tactics, just with polished and updated rules. They said at least that much, so I wouldn't expect a completley different game than the first set, just hopefully a more polished version (think original release SotM compared to the later released Enhanced Edition).They listed a ton of characters already. Announced characters include 6 Prime Wardens (Tempest, Cap Cosmic, Haka, Fanatic, Argent Adept, Sky Scraper), Apostate, Blood Countess, and the entire Ennead (Shu, Set, Isis, Osiris, Nuit, Neph, Tefnut, Atum, Geb). Thats 17 characters announced right there, and theres a chance that number will actually be higher.Hope that helps cement some of the announced details.

 

foote, no offense but I think the detail a lot of people want to know is a rough timeline.


My wife thinks Sentinels is ruining our marriage. I think she doesnt know what shes talking about because she wont sit down to play it

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Foote answered a particular question that person had and singled out that quote in his reply to relay that.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
phantaskippy
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So far the timeline seems to be when the game is right.  Personally I think we won't get too much on it until Christopher is done with his work on OblivAeon.  Having two projects delayed too much is worse than having one delayed too much.

OblivAeon is a huge undertaking and is going to require a lot of the company's attention.  Once that is off to the printers I expect Tactics to get a lot of attention.

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phantaskippy wrote:

So far the timeline seems to be when the game is right.  Personally I think we won't get too much on it until Christopher is done with his work on OblivAeon.  Having two projects delayed too much is worse than having one delayed too much.OblivAeon is a huge undertaking and is going to require a lot of the company's attention.  Once that is off to the printers I expect Tactics to get a lot of attention.

Assuming the RPG doesn't get plugged in the middle of Oblivaeon and Tactics.

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Its projected timeline (Kickstarter in a year with a basic kit similar to the demo they run now for sale) isn't going to be hard to meet.  Also the other people inolved are doing a lot of the work on it, so it doesn't require the time that SotM requires from him.  I don't think that will be a big issue.

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We didn't think getting Broken City out in a reasonable timeframe would have been a big issue either though, to be fair.

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Foote wrote:

We didn't think getting Broken City out in a reasonable timeframe would have been a big issue either though, to be fair.

I think there might have been an internal disconnect in the projected timeline for BC/FP. >G probably estimated their ability to turn an expansion at a similar rate to, say, Vengeance, as a large update to a game mode, but with relatively little underlying mechanics to update. Shattered Timelines came out May 2013, and Vengeance was out Feb '14, so a year of dev time probably seemed more than generous. I'm actually very proud of >G, as someone who loves Tactics, for not putting out a hard and fast realease date yet, as I personally want them to make sure the game is done right, as opposed to done now. I can keep playing Flame Of Freedom and Uprising, while looking forward to a good expansion that will hopefully breathe life into the game for new, yet-to-be introduced players, which seems to be the goal for Prime War.

As a pre-orderer, sure, I want the product I pre-ordered, but I also want a quality product; not just a box i'll use once and put away, as we've heard multiple people did with the first wave.


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phantaskippy
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Foote wrote:

We didn't think getting Broken City out in a reasonable timeframe would have been a big issue either though, to be fair.

Yeah, and Starcraft 2 took 800 years, so we can never expect anything ever.  Everything is a lie.

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No, just the cake.


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phantaskippy wrote:
Foote wrote:
We didn't think getting Broken City out in a reasonable timeframe would have been a big issue either though, to be fair.

 

Yeah, and Starcraft 2 took 800 years, so we can never expect anything ever.  Everything is a lie.

Brood War held up incredibly well way past its prime. RIP mass dragoon rush. I miss you dearly every waking day.

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Thanks for you feedback and questions, everyone! I want to be as open about this as possible, so here is all of the information we have right now!

1) The timeline on Prime War is much harder to predict than for any other project we are currently working on. The reason for that is that we have never done a strip-down and re-build of an existing game before, and it is more important to us that we get it completely right this time around than that we hit a specific timeline. However, if I had to predict right now, I'd say that between art and development time, we're looking at something very approximately one year from now.

2) We are definitely going to make a retrofit-kit that upgrades all of the Flame of Freedom and Uprising characters to be 100% compatible with the Prime War characters. This will take the form of an upgrade kit, which will come with new character panels, a few power cards, and anything else needed to upgrade those characters. That upgrade kit will be sold, probably for $5-$10, as an option for people who participate in the future Prime War pre-order. However, it will be sent free of charge to any current pre-orderers.

3) We are going to break with our traditional practice and do something genuinely exclusive for Broken City pre-orderers who stick with us on this. We are not certain what we'll be able to do, but are looking into several ideas that seem very cool to us. We do know, however, that it will *not* be something with game play content (like the extra power cards from Flame of Freedom).

That is all that we know on this right now! I definitely understand how frustrating this might be; we had a lot of discussions about whether it was worth it or not, and we ultimately decided that we'll wind up releasing a much better game if we completely rework it as we are now. However, we definitely understand that there have been a ton of delays on this project, and that a bunch of you pre-ordered it a long time ago already, so we are very happy to give out refunds to anyone and everyone who requests one.


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Paul wrote:

Thanks for you feedback and questions, everyone! I want to be as open about this as possible, so here is all of the information we have right now!1) The timeline on Prime War is much harder to predict than for any other project we are currently working on. The reason for that is that we have never done a strip-down and re-build of an existing game before, and it is more important to us that we get it completely right this time around than that we hit a specific timeline. However, if I had to predict right now, I'd say that between art and development time, we're looking at something very approximately one year from now.2) We are definitely going to make a retrofit-kit that upgrades all of the Flame of Freedom and Uprising characters to be 100% compatible with the Prime War characters. This will take the form of an upgrade kit, which will come with new character panels, a few power cards, and anything else needed to upgrade those characters. That upgrade kit will be sold, probably for $5-$10, as an option for people who participate in the future Prime War pre-order. However, it will be sent free of charge to any current pre-orderers.3) We are going to break with our traditional practice and do something genuinely exclusive for Broken City pre-orderers who stick with us on this. We are not certain what we'll be able to do, but are looking into several ideas that seem very cool to us. We do know, however, that it will *not* be something with game play content (like the extra power cards from Flame of Freedom).That is all that we know on this right now! I definitely understand how frustrating this might be; we had a lot of discussions about whether it was worth it or not, and we ultimately decided that we'll wind up releasing a much better game if we completely rework it as we are now. However, we definitely understand that there have been a ton of delays on this project, and that a bunch of you pre-ordered it a long time ago already, so we are very happy to give out refunds to anyone and everyone who requests one.

 

Paul thank you for your responese on this. i plan to stick with my preorder. However i would like to suggest because of all the delays with this occasional updates on this product even if it is hey we are working on it and this is what we been trying would be great. This has been one of the largest problems with Broken City and the feeling that it has been thrown into a box that will never see the light of day due to lack of communication. Please do not become like Niantic Labs, the creators of pokemon go when it comes to communication. I know theres only so many playtesters but you have a large community that would love to give their input on ideas you guys may have on the game on what they would love to see.

One thing as feedback i will give you on the senarios that my gaming group did not enjoy was there being a series of scenarios for one story. I will use baron blade scenario as an example. scenario 1 you could play easily on your own. but then if you jump to scenario 2 you were almost forced into playing scenario 3 and vice versa. Moving forward I would love to see these scenarios be more self contained so i could pick and choose what i want to play and when. Since the scenarios you are trying to design remind me of mice and mystics a bit I would recommend taking a look at how they created their scenarios and rules to be able to accomplish this easily.


My wife thinks Sentinels is ruining our marriage. I think she doesnt know what shes talking about because she wont sit down to play it

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I like the idea of more self-contained scenarios too. I just want to pick one and go. 


Spiff's SotM site: www.spiffworld.com/sotm
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So August 2017, or maybe longer. I wrote off that money nearly a year ago, what's another years wait.

My biggest concern is my mailing address has changed. How the heck do I update my address for my pre-order?

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One thing I have not heard about is the dice issue. None standard sided dice are the absolute worst. Ok maybe its not really a big issue, or even an issue at all. I just want to nerd rage on something.  But really, if you are rebuilding from the ground up, fix the dice. Pretty please.laugh

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@NinjaMonkey

Don't worry! We'll let everyone know a few weeks before it ships so that mailing addresses can be updated. I guarantee we're gonna have our work cut out for us updating mailing addresses by the time this is done...

@igneus

Yes, that will also be something we fix :)


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NinjaMonkey wrote:

My biggest concern is my mailing address has changed. How the heck do I update my address for my pre-order?

I believe a message to would work.

igneus wrote:

One thing I have not heard about is the dice issue. None standard sided dice are the absolute worst. Ok maybe its not really a big issue, or even an issue at all. I just want to nerd rage on something.  But really, if you are rebuilding from the ground up, fix the dice. Pretty please.laugh

Personally, I love that the dice are spindowns! It's so nice to be able to use them as counters for things or to easily spin to another number (such as if Omnitron's or Visionary's dice change).

From what I understand, the reason dice were set up with opposites (1 across from 6, 2 from 5, etc.) was to avoid cheating with dice, as having a "flattened" die will result in two sides coming up more frequently than the others. We don't really have that issue, anymore (that I know of) -- it's not like folks are going to bring their cheat dice to a Tactics game. wink

That's just me, though.


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Rabit
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Ha! Ninja'd by Paul, himself! laugh


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The conversion kit is interesting, and I'm glad it will end up being free.

 

I've played Tactics a little, but not enough to feel I have an in-depth understanding of the characters, what do you guys suppose will be the changes they make?

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Hej Paul, thanks for the update and for throwing in a bone or two for Broken City pre-orderers.

However, I'd rather keep updated regularly on how Prime War progresses, both in art, character abilities and game-play reworks. Just to see the project move forward instead of it seemingly beach within oblivion as happened with Broken City.

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Intnetional? For a game intended to 'reboot' the game and to act as a 'primer' to the tactics universe, the box art prominently says PrimeR.


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Sorry, since when was SS a part of the PW?

 


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Since the reintroduction of the team in Tactics


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
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So you all beleive that Sky Scraper is part of the Prime Wardens rather than "just" a sixth character in the box, like Ra was in the original set (connected but not part of)? I don't see any evidence of this one way or the other.


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It says it in the description https://greaterthangames.com/content/announcing-prime-war

Quote:

The Prime War core game will include the six members of the Prime Wardens (The Argent Adept, Captain Cosmic, Fanatic, Haka, Tempest, and Sky-Scraper!)


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
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That'll teach me to rely on my memory!


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There's actually 7 Prime Wardens in the RPG, because Sky-Scrapper joins them as well.

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I have an image of a Thorathian Mechsuit made of junk parts for Sky-Scrapper. It's glorious.


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Edit: I was trying to Reply to Skippy's comment about SS being the 7th member of the PW

Either you're joke flew over my head or I need to know who this mysterious 6th member of the PW is... I was generally shocked that the Naturalist has not joined the team yet (dunno what he's up to, that incap on desparate prey was confusing). But Sky-Scraper is my favorite and the fact that she's in my favorite team is stellar = )


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If you're referring to Sky-scrapper, it was a common mis-spelling of Sky-scraper on these fora when people started talking about her. At least, I interpreted it as a joke referring to that.


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That makes me think of my friend who saw Sky -Scraper the first time and thought it said Sky-Crapper


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
Bas
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*Bump*

How are things going with this project? Are any of the reworks showing up to have some merit? And if so; what can we expect from that? Are there also ideas to make the environment more interactive (eg items and npc's that can be used to assist the addressing player)?

phantaskippy
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Can't say much at this phase, but I really like some of the changes we are testing, even some I was quite skeptical of.  Can't speak to the second part at all right now.

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We currently have no plans to make the environment have more merit!

Right now I'm waiting on other people (not you guys) before I can move forward, but as soon as I hear back, I should be able to return to semi-regular updates :)


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Thanks man!

What triggered me to ask about the environment was seeing what "guardian chronicles: a clash of heroes" did with it. Looked very interesting and some of these ideas / principles could bring the environment in Tactics forward a bit, rather than providing some mild ambience.

Bas
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*Bump*

Is there already some news/art/progress on Prime War yet?

pinbot
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Are the long awaited map scenarios part of Prime War?  Some explicit mention would be nice.  

The original report was that you took the scenarios off the maps because the font turned out unreadable and they would shortly be available as pdf's.  That really implied you actually had scenarios ready to go.  So couldn't we at least see those first versions to tide us over?  Perhaps they would give the maps some entertainment value beyond the tetris puzzle of finding shelf space for those long boxes.

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The map scenarios are about to enter their final wave of changes, and should soon be available for all!


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Promo art would be fun to see. :) (OK, I admit I just kinda want to see more of Argent & Haka's new looks...)


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Hooray, thanks for the great news!

 

PeterCHayward wrote:

The map scenarios are about to enter their final wave of changes, and should soon be available for all!

godzilla999666
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Last seen: 2 years 3 months ago
Joined: Sep 30, 2014

i'll believe it when i see it.  According to the start of affair post, it seems tactics is greater than games redheaded stepchild that no one wants.

PeterCHayward
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Last seen: 1 year 6 months ago
Game Designer
Joined: Apr 27, 2015

Then get your believing glasses on, because they're coming soon! :)

(As the person specifically working on Tactics literally right now, I am a pretty good source for this kind of thing!)


Australian living in Toronto. I make a lot of games. http://about.peterchayward.com

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