Pending rules questions

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Pending rules questions

This thread is the place where we collect gameplay questions for which we'd like rulings from >G.

 

Moderators collect questions from other threads to put here, in the first post of this thread, with links to the source threads where the question arose. Answers will (likely) be posted in the source threads. Once answered, questions will be removed from this first post.

Anyone is welcome to post into this thread in order to point out another thread where there is a question that needs answering. When doing so please try to formulate the question as clearly as possible and make sure to include a link to a thread where the issue has been discussed. Discussions of topics should go in other threads, not in this one.

 

Pending Questions

 

Answered Questions


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Edited by: arenson9 on Sep 30 2013 - 4:31pm
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Secondary effects of Throat Jab/Hypersonic Assault:

https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/throat-jab-vs-backlash-field-0   https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/question-on-hypersonic-assault-3105   (PLEASE POST ANSWER HERE)     (dypaca)

Basically the question is, at what point does a target damaged by Hypersonic Assault stop being able to deal damage?  The possible answers I see are:

1. As soon as their HP is reduced, before anything else triggered by their HP being reduced (Like say Backlash Field)

2. After all effects of their HP being reduced are resolved, but before Hypersonic Assault damages another target.

3. After all the damage from Hypersonic Assault has been resolved including anything triggered by that damage (Like the Matriarch reacting to Fowl being destroyed, Ambuscade's Reactive plating).

The answer would presumably also apply to Throatjab (the old question), Offensive Transmutation, and Ethereal Bonds, but since those only damage one target, the distinction between 2 and 3 does not matter to them.  The general consensus there was that answer 1 is probably not correct.

So I guess the two examples are:

Baron Blade has Backlash Field in play, and Tachyon plays Hypersonic Assault.  Does she take the 3 lightning damage?

Matriarch has a Fowl in play, and Tachyon plays Hypersonic Assault, choosing to damage first the Matriarch, then the Fowl.  Does the Matriarch deal her revenge damage?

 

ANSWERED

https://greaterthangames.com/comment/33444#comment-33444

 


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If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If not now, when? If I am for myself alone, what am I? -- Hillel

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How does Dual Crowbars damage work?

This is from the following thread:

https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/bloody-knuckles-combo-3129

 

This is really an initial question and one of two follow-up questions depending on the answer to the initial question.

Initial Question: When Dual Crowbars is used, does it result in (A) Simply applying damage to a second target or in (B) Initiating a second attack?

If (A - Simply apply damage to second target), then would that damage be reduced/increased by cards affecting the destination/target and/or possibly completely stopped by immunity?

If (B - Initiating a second attack), then would the initial amount of the attack be the same as Fixer's initial amount for the original attack or the same as Fixer's _RESULTING_ amount for the initial attack?

 

Examples ... which one of these five scenarios is correct?

A1 - Simply apply and destination effects/immunity in effect

Fixer has Bloody Knuckles in play and strikes the Deputy doing 3 points of damage. Using Dual Crowbars Fixer chooses The Chairman, but the Chairman has not yet flipped so is immune to damage and takes 0.

 

A2a - Simply apply and _NO_ destination effects/immunity in effect

Fixer has Bloody Knuckles in play and strikes the Deputy doing 3 points of damage. Using Dual Crowbars Fixer chooses The Chairman. The Chairman has not yet flipped, so is nominally immune to damage, but takes 3 points of damage anyway.

 

A2b - Simply apply and _NO_ destination effects in effect but immunity is still in effect

Fixer has Bloody Knuckles in play and strikes the Deputy doing 3 points of damage. Using Dual Crowbars Fixer chooses The Chairman. The Chairman _has_ flipped, so is not immune to damage, but destination effects are _NOT_ in effect, so  the nemesis bonus is not used and The Chairman only takes 3 points of damage, not 4.

 

B1 - New attack, same amount as initial original attack.

Fixer has Bloody Knuckles in play and strikes the Deputy doing 3 points of damage. Using Dual Crowbars Fixer chooses The Chairman. The Chairman _has_ flipped, so is not immune to damage. Fixer does an attack of 1 point of damage which is increased by Bloody Knuckles and the Nemesis bonus to 4, so The Chairman takes 4 points of damage.

 

B2 - New attack, same amount as _RESULTING AMOUNT_ of original attack

Fixer has Bloody Knuckles in play and strikes the Deputy doing 3 points of damage. Using Dual Crowbars Fixer chooses The Chairman. The Chairman _has_ flipped, so is not immune to damage. Fixer does an attack of 43points of damage which is increased by Bloody Knuckles and the Nemesis bonus to 6, so The Chairman takes 6 points of damage.

 

Summary: Is the damage to The Chairman 0, 3, 4, or 6. And, if it is 3, does The Chairman's immunity matter?

 

Hi. My name's Andy. Feel free to call me Andy, since, ya know, that's my name. (he/him/his)

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Does Hairtrigger Reflexes destroying a Fowl card prevent the next card from being played?

 

It has been ruled that when Hairtrigger Reflexes is in play and a Fowl card is played, another villain card is played before Hairtrigger Reflexes is triggered. It has also been ruled, however, that when Negative Energy Field is in play and another Distortion is played, Negative Energy Field is triggered before it is destroyed by the new Distortion.

This seems to be a discrepany -- in the first case, the effect of the card coming in to play (Fowl card) is taken into account before the effect of the card already in play (Hairtrigger Reflexes). In the second case, the effect of the card coming in to play (some other distortion) is _NOT_ taken into account before the effect of the card already in play (Negative Energy Field).

 

[NOTE: I do not have any specific threads in mind to point to for a referrence for this and/or a place for >G to put a ruling. If anyone would like to suggest one or more, please let me know. Otherwise, perhaps >G will create a thread for the ruling.]


Hi. My name's Andy. Feel free to call me Andy, since, ya know, that's my name. (he/him/his)

If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If not now, when? If I am for myself alone, what am I? -- Hillel

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Can Nightmist redirect damage when she is in mistform?

https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/amulet-of-the-elder-gods-in-mist-form-3004

 

It would be so great to have an official answer about this. :D

 

ANSWERED

https://greaterthangames.com/comment/33448#comment-33448

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https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/targeting-is-hard-lets-shoot-barrels-rule-questions-3336

 

The basic still-unresolved question: Legacy plays Flying Smash, which has three targets, and attacks Kismet, who has an Inconcievable Obstruction out. She gets a Stout Barrel and redirects the damage to it. Now, can Legacy target that barrel as his second or third attack, or did all of his targets have to be named when he played the card, before he started assigning damage (and triggering effects that might make new targets come into play)?

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Two questions related to choosing targets

https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/targeting-is-hard-lets-shoot-barrels-rule-questions-3336

The first: If you are damaging multiple different targets and the first damage is redirected, is the final recipient of the first damage a valid target for the next damage and is the original target of the first damage a valid target for the next damage?
Example: Legacy plays Flying Smash and first targets Condemnation which is redirected to the Orb of Delerium. Can he now choose the Orb of Delerium or Condemnation for the next damage?
 

The second: If you are damaging multiple targets (but not all targets of a type), and the first damage brings a new target into play, can you choose that new target for the next damage?
Example: Legacy plays Flying Smash and kills a cultist, bringing a zombie into play. Can he now target the zombie with the next damage?

 

Answered

https://greaterthangames.com/comment/33449#comment-33449


Hi. My name's Andy. Feel free to call me Andy, since, ya know, that's my name. (he/him/his)

If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If not now, when? If I am for myself alone, what am I? -- Hillel

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Public Service Announcement -- Christopher knows about this thread and is looking forward to providing rulings. Right now he is deep into thinking about Galactic Strike Force. So, no definite timeframe for when we'll get judgements, but there's (in my opinion) a really good reason for the delay.


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If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If not now, when? If I am for myself alone, what am I? -- Hillel

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Hi. My name's Andy. Feel free to call me Andy, since, ya know, that's my name. (he/him/his)

If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If not now, when? If I am for myself alone, what am I? -- Hillel

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Digging through some other threads and combining the questions with this thread, I've come up with the following four questions. Any objections?

 

1) If an attack is redirected by Smoke Bombs and then redirected again by something else, does the -1 from Smoke Bombs still apply?

Example: Smoke Bombs in play. Haka is lowest and is attacked for 3. Mr. Fixer is highest. Smoke Bombs redirects the attack from Haka to Mr. Fixer and reduces it from 3 to 2. Mr. Fixer has Driving Mantis and redirects the attack to Plague Rat. Assuming no other modifiers, is the attack on Plague Rat for 2 or for 3?

2) Can the same card redirect the same attack more than once?

Example: Smoke Bombs in play. Haka is lowest and is attacked. Mr. Fixer is highest. Smoke Bombs redirects the attack from Haka to Mr. Fixer. Mr. Fixer has Driving Mantis and redirects the attack back to Haka. Can Smoke Bombs redirect the attack a second time?

3) If Smoke Bombs redirects the same attack more than once, does the -1 modifier stack?

4) If all active heroes are tied for HP, are they all considered the highest and the lowest simultaneously, or are they constrained to a single ordering, which is up to the players to decide?

Example: Smoke Bombs in play. Haka and Wraith are the only hero targets and have the same HP. Haka is attacked. Does Smoke Bombs cause the attack to be redirected over and over between the two heroes, or must the players choose a single ordering that specifies which hero is considered highest and which is lowest and then only one redirection occurs?
 


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If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If not now, when? If I am for myself alone, what am I? -- Hillel

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What exactly does Advanced La Capitan do on her flip side? 

 

https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/la-capitan-advanced-3449

 

She has an ability that triggers whenever she would be dealt damage.  She removes a card and prevents that damage.  Her advanced text says that the first time she would be dealt damage in a round, redirect it. 

 

So, the first time she would be dealt damage in a round, do you prevent it or redirect it? 

 

Answered

https://greaterthangames.com/comment/33451#comment-33451

 


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Is damage dealt using Mortal Form to Energy modifiable?

https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/dmg-dealt-using-mortal-form-to-energy-modifiable-3290

 

This question hinges on the use of the phrase "that much damage" rather than something like "X damage where X is the amount of healing that occured". More importantly, perhaps, this question arises because of the uncertainty about how, exactly, Jack Handle and Dual Crowbars work, and those are other cards with similar phrasing.

 

Example: The Scholar heals 2 HP. A villain target with 1 damage reduction is targeted by Mortal Form to Energy. Assuming no other modifiers, does the villain target take 1 or 2 damage?

 

Answered

https://greaterthangames.com/comment/33452#comment-33452

 


Hi. My name's Andy. Feel free to call me Andy, since, ya know, that's my name. (he/him/his)

If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If not now, when? If I am for myself alone, what am I? -- Hillel

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Two questions related to sonic mines

https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/wrest-the-mind-on-sonic-mines-3655

(articulated by Dypaca)

Question 1:

If a card says "if [sonic mine] leaves play, destroy this card", is that card still in effect while Sonic Mine deals damage from being destroyed?

Example: Wrest the Mind is played next to Sonic Mine, then Sonic Mine is destroyed.  Can Visionary redirect the damage dealt by Sonic Mine?

Personally I have a hard time seeing why she wouldn't be able to redirect the damage this way.

Question 2:

Can damage be directed to Sonic Mine while it is dealing damage from being destroyed?

Example: Mr Fixer has Driving Mantis and destroys Sonic Mine.  Can he redirect the damage it deals back to the destroyed Sonic Mine?

Note that the answer to the pending question on Hypersonic Assault would effect whether there is any tactical reason to choose Sonic Mine over another villain target.  If Sonic Mine doesn't immediately stop dealing damage when it hits itself, then you may as well just redirect to Ambuscade.  Though I suppose having Sonic Mine still considered a valid villain target would matter if it destroys a Bot with Volatile Parts out.

 

Answered

https://greaterthangames.com/comment/33454#comment-33454


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Can Wrest the Mind be interrupted?

 

The Visionary's Wrest the Mind states that when it redirects damage, "the Visionary deals this card's target and herself 3 psychic damage each". The card also states that "if the target leaves play, destroy this card".

1) If the target of Wrest the Mind is destroyed by the first part of this effect, and thus Wrest the Mind destroys itself and leaves play, does the second part still damage the Visionary?

2) Would this ruling be different if the card read "the Visionary deals this card's target 3 psychic damage, then deals herself 3 psychic damage"?

 

and a related question:

3) The Argent Adept's Musarangi's Harp reads: "Power: Activate the Perform text of a Harmony card and the Accompany text of a Harmony card". His Cedistic Dissonant reads: "Perform: Destroy an instrument. If you do, destroy any one card in play, other than a character card". If The Argent Adept uses his Harp to activate the Perform text of Cedistic Dissonant, and destroys the Harp using that effect, does he still get to activate an accompany text?

 

Answer for questions 1 and 2

https://greaterthangames.com/comment/33455#comment-33455

 

 

https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/a-few-clarifications-needed-for-wrest-the-mind-about-visionary-self-damage-3776

 

 


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How is the type of an attack resolved when multiple cards can affect it?

https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/order-in-which-damage-effects-are-applied-4004

1) If Imbued Fire and Cramped Quarters Combat are both in play, what is the type of hero attacks? Is it based on the order these two cards came into play?

 

2) If Imbued Fire is in play and Twist the Ether is in play on a hero, what is the type of that hero's attack? Is it based on the order these two cards came into play, or is one of these always definitive?

 

Also, when are modifiers that trigger based on the type of an attack applied?

3) If Wraith has her Micro Targeting Computer and Throwing Knives, but Imbued Fire was played _AFTER_ MicroTargeting Computer, what bonuses does Wraith get?

     A) +2 for MTC _AND_ +1 for Imbued Fire?

     B) Only +2 for MTC?

     C) Only +1 for Imbued Fire?

 

 


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If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If not now, when? If I am for myself alone, what am I? -- Hillel

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Is infinite redirection possible?

https://greaterthangames.com/comment/37643#comment-37643

1) Can a card redirect the same attack more than once?

 

Consider Legacy at lowest HP with Lead From the Front in Play and Wraith at highest HP with Smoke Bombs in play. If a villain targets a hero, can Legacy redirect that attack to himself, causing that attack to be redirected by Smoke Bombs to Wraith, and then choose to redirect that attack to himself again, potentially causing Smoke Bombs to once again redirect the attack to Wraith?

 

2) If an attack is reduced by a redirection and then redirected again, is the attack still reduced?

 

Consider that Smoke Bombs caused an attack to be redirected from Wraith to Tachyon, but Tachyon's Synaptic Interuption than causes the attack to be redirected elswhere, would the attack still be reduced by one due to Smoke Bombs?


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If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If not now, when? If I am for myself alone, what am I? -- Hillel

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arenson9 wrote:

Does Hairtrigger Reflexes destroying a Fowl card prevent the next card from being played? It has been ruled that when Hairtrigger Reflexes is in play and a Fowl card is played, another villain card is played before Hairtrigger Reflexes is triggered. It has also been ruled, however, that when Negative Energy Field is in play and another Distortion is played, Negative Energy Field is triggered before it is destroyed by the new Distortion.This seems to be a discrepany -- in the first case, the effect of the card coming in to play (Fowl card) is taken into account before the effect of the card already in play (Hairtrigger Reflexes). In the second case, the effect of the card coming in to play (some other distortion) is _NOT_ taken into account before the effect of the card already in play (Negative Energy Field). [NOTE: I do not have any specific threads in mind to point to for a referrence for this and/or a place for >G to put a ruling. If anyone would like to suggest one or more, please let me know. Otherwise, perhaps >G will create a thread for the ruling.]

I think it has to do with entering play versus being played. Fowl say "When this card is played from the villan deck". Hairtigger reflexes says "Whenever a non-hero target enters play ". Distortions say "when this card enters play", and negative eneergy field says "Whenever a card is played".

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This isn't the place to debate the issues Andy posts here.  This is just the place for Andy to post the questions and (hopefully) the answers when (if) they come from the devs.  If people have opinions about the questions posted here, it's probably better to make a new topic for that discussion so that we don't confuse this one.


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Spiff wrote:

This isn't the place to debate the issues Andy posts here.  This is just the place for Andy to post the questions and (hopefully) the answers when (if) they come from the devs.  If people have opinions about the questions posted here, it's probably better to make a new topic for that discussion so that we don't confuse this one.

 

Thanks, Spiff.

 

There is also usually a link to an existing discussion, though I realize that's not the case for this particular question.


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Does setting a target's HP involve healing?

 

https://greaterthangames.com/comment/41343#comment-41343

 

1) If Fanatic uses her Aegis of Resurrenction when healing is reduced, does she get less than 10 HP?

 

2) Similarly, when Baron Blade or Apostate are flipped when healing is reduced, do they get fewer HP?

 

3) Also, what about the converse, if healing is increased? Can Fanatic end up with 11 HP? Can Baron Blade end up with 31 (or 41)?


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It's probably pretty well understood by the playerbase that Baron Blade can't exceed his maximum HP post-flip; the Phosphorescent Chamber version of the question would only apply to Fanatic's Aegis and Apostate.  (Also where did you get 41 for the Baron?  He never flips back to his 40-HP original that I've ever heard of.)


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Envisioner wrote:
(Also where did you get 41 for the Baron?  He never flips back to his 40-HP original that I've ever heard of.)

Alternate Baron Blade has 40 HP on the back.  Comments on this stuff would probably be better in a new thread or the one asking for pending rules questions: https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/other-pending-rules-questions-4187 instead of in this stickied thread.

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dypaca wrote:

 

Envisioner wrote:
(Also where did you get 41 for the Baron?  He never flips back to his 40-HP original that I've ever heard of.)

 

Alternate Baron Blade has 40 HP on the back.  Comments on this stuff would probably be better in a new thread or the one asking for pending rules questions: https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/other-pending-rules-questions-4187 instead of in this stickied thread.

Thanks, Dypaca.

To be clear, please do not put comments about questions in this thread.


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Looking through this thread there are some that I think have been answered that aren't labelled as such, and others that still remain unanswered (I think)

Most rule debates have died down since the Timing Rule tweak.

 

 

Post #20:  Whether modification to recovery affects restoring HP.  Still unanswered I believe.

Are any of the other ones unanswered?

The list from post #1 I think all of those have been answered except for healing modification.

 

Just a reminder this thread is not for debating rules, so let's stick to whether there is an official ruling or not.

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phantaskippy wrote:

Looking through this thread there are some that I think have been answered that aren't labelled as such, and others that still remain unanswered (I think)Most rule debates have died down since the Timing Rule tweak.  Post #20:  Whether modification to recovery affects restoring HP.  Still unanswered I believe.Are any of the other ones unanswered?The list from post #1 I think all of those have been answered except for healing modification. Just a reminder this thread is not for debating rules, so let's stick to whether there is an official ruling or not.

Blast!

PS. It probably does

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I haven't got the time to review these.

 

If anyone thinks a question is answered, please either post in the relevant thread or create a new thread and be as clear as possible about what the answer is and where/how/who provided the answer.


Hi. My name's Andy. Feel free to call me Andy, since, ya know, that's my name. (he/him/his)

If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If not now, when? If I am for myself alone, what am I? -- Hillel