Mods and Two Effects on One Die

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drkrash1969
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Mods and Two Effects on One Die

Suppose a hero has 2 effects on one die, such as "Recover Health with Min" and "Hinder opponent with Min."  If the hero has a Boost or Hinder, does it apply to both effects (i.e., the mod affects the die itself) or does it affect one or the other (i.e., the mod affects the effect).

The rule is that a Mod affecting a die that affects multiple opponents affects all of them, but this is a case where there are 2 different effects coming off the same die.

I couldn't find a clear ruling in the book.  Thoughts?


catDreaming
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I've always played it as the mod affects the effect die. So in the case you've listed, it would apply to both the Recover and the Hinder.

But let's say that you have 'Hinder with Min' and 'Attack using Mid+Min'. In that case, applying a mod to the Min die would not effect the Mid+Min dice, because Mid+Min is a different effect die than Min. It's proven pretty balanced, and my players are fine with my usage of it as well as their own.


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drkrash1969
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I would have played it that way also; last session, the players were so slammed with Hinders that they made the case that the Hinder should affect one Effect, not the die.  I gave it to them because they needed the help, but I wondered if there was an "official" rule.  Someone on the FB group thought a Mod affects one Effect not one die, so it can be seen both ways.

MindWanderer
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I've tried very hard to get the development team to clarify this in the rulebook, but they declined to do so.  The book says that mods affect the effect die, but in The Letters Page, Christopher clarified that each mod affects one specific effect.

So yes, if you're using something like Flexible Stance, Endurance Fighting, Inspiring Totem, or even a twist that keys off a die, mods apply to only one outcome.


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catDreaming
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Out of curiousity, does using one versus the other imbalance the game to any great degree?

I don't feel like letting mods apply across multiple outcomes on one die actually makes Flexible Stance, Endurance Fighting, Inspiring Totem that much stronger than they would be if the mods only apply to one outcome. I'd welcome any proof to the contrary, though.


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der andere Jan
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When introducing mods, it says they are a way to affect the outcome of one action - then adding the limitation of "only one effect die" within that action. (p.22).

It also says that "mods go away after one use" (p.26).

So the ambiguity we are discussing here boils down to this: 

** If an action has multiple effects from the same die, does that still count as 'one use'? **

I'd lean towards "no" for common sense: 'one use' seems to imply that it cannot have its effect multiplied.

With that in mind, mods that work "until your next turn" are much stronger in comparison, as they would also cover multiple effects.

 


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MemoryBeast
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Mods have descriptions and represent things in the game; they aren't just "+1" or "+3" with no further details.  At least implicitly, a mod is only supposed to work on an effect where it makes sense with what's going on in the fiction.  So, even if a mod were allowed to modify two different effects based on the same effect die at the same time... does that make sense with the fiction?  Depending on exactly what power/quality/ability was used to give you that Boost, and how the Boost was described, it might strain things a little to have to figure out how it applies to two completely different effects at the same time.

catDreaming
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You're right, it can be a strain. Especially if the bonus isn't persistent. But it's far from impossible, and with some forethought, not that difficult.

As an example, a character who's power suit's main thing is storing energy from attacks levered at it (When you are Attacked and dealt damage, Boost yourself using the amount of damage taken), and it can release that stored energy in Kinetic Blast Waves(Attack multiple targets using Power Suit, using your Min die). The character focusing their Kinetic Blast Waves to not only damage but also blast enemies off their feet, or disrupt whatever stance their in (Whenever you Attack, also Hinder that target using your Min die).

Mechanically, the bonus of Stored Kinetic Energy should only apply to the attack or to the Hinder, but narratively could apply to both simoutaneously. I don't see that as far fetched.


A single man
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Blades borne to the unmoving air
An unchanging world as their sheathe
Preserved for eternity
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braincraft
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If an effect has multiple targets, does a bonus or penalty to that effect apply to all targets or only one?

 

edit: Never mind, I just read the answer on page 22. It applies to all targets.