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arenson9
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Imagine you are playing in a Tactics tournament. Without considering what characters have been banned or drafted and without considering the tournament map, for each character, what is that character's greatest strength, what are the top three characters you would choose to counter it, and what are the top three characters you would want to ally with that character?

 

As an example:

Tachyon:

  • Greatest strength: She can output a bunch of smaller attacks and a couple bigger attacks in back-to-back turns -- enough to incap most characters, though at the cost of half of her own hit points.
  • Counters: Omnitron (enough HPs to not be incapped); Operative (Generate hazard spaces that likely incap Tachyon before being incapped); Wraith (slip into shadows to avoid melee attacks)
  • Ally with: Legacy (Takes attack for Tachyon and/or gives attack+1s); Unity (Champion bot makes the small attacks big attacks); Visionary (help on offense, help on defense)

 

I'm a bit concerned that I'm going to come up with the same three for allies for everyone -- the most supportive characters.

 

 


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arenson9 wrote:

I'm a bit concerned that I'm going to come up with the same three for allies for everyone -- the most supportive characters.  

But if you consider characters whose strategies complement each other, rather than just characters who boost each other, it becomes a bit more open. For example, I'd say that Wraith and Bunker make good allies for Tachyon; those long range attacks soften targets up before Tachyon dashes in for the kill, and Stun Bolt/Tactical Whatsis can give Tachy an edge in number of dice rolled.

All three of the recommended allies you selected require Tachyon to be somewhat close to them/in LoS for their full effect, which can limit her options.


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Wraith:  

Strengths

1.  Bolts and knives.  -1 defense is crushing, far better than adding one to your attack.  And a 2 target, no auto miss attack? Crazy.

2.  Computer and Eyepiece.  Eyepiece is situationally strong, especially with stun bolts.  Computer is epic, that free aim is almost always better than eyepiece, even if it is limited to 1 attack.  The reach is sick as well.

3.  Slip.  Against a good number of teams with cover on the map Wraith can be nearly unkillable.

Weaknesses

1.  Misreading pellets and not realizing they deal no damage. 

Pairings

Tachyon.  She's the number one counter to slip, so her as a teammate is awesome, plus the snipe to weaken, flurry to kill strategy is legit.

Unity.  Champion Bot, targeting computer, throwing knives.  Any questions?  Because seriously, that is 2 targets, 5 dice up to range 7, no auto misses, both aimed, with an action left.

Stall characters.  Wraith makes a stall strategy viable, so Legacy, Dawn, Proletariat, Ambuscade can all work well for that whittle them down, take little damage style game.

Counter Picks

Tachyon, Dawn (Truth), Beacon, Operative, AZ (structures).

arenson9
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How is Tachyon a counter to Slip Into Shadows?


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If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If not now, when? If I am for myself alone, what am I? -- Hillel

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arenson9 wrote:

How is Tachyon a counter to Slip Into Shadows?

I assume because you can only slip once per turn, so Tachyon can just keep sprinting after you,but there are probably other much better reasons.
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arenson9 wrote:

How is Tachyon a counter to Slip Into Shadows?

 

She has an easier time than most characters dealing with Slip into Shadows + Cover, especially.

arenson9
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lutherbellhendricksv wrote:

arenson9 wrote:

How is Tachyon a counter to Slip Into Shadows?

 She has an easier time than most characters dealing with Slip into Shadows + Cover, especially.

How is it easier? Tachyon loses her attack, just like other characters.


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Because you tend to use tachyon in rapid attacks, so, assuming you're using momentum, the wraith can slip away from one attack, but you've got at least two more coming at her.

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Tachyon doesn't just move then attack and she's done, Wraith sprints costing tach her strike, then Tachyon sprints to Wraith's new location and hits her.

That is 4 actions for other heroes, but Tachyon that is 2.  Wraith in cover is almost impossible to attack for most heroes, Tachyon can burn her slip and still hit her twice without a single power in play.

Beacon can ignore cover, and use bolster allies if set up right to get an attack through.

arenson9
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phantaskippy wrote:

Tachyon doesn't just move then attack and she's done, Wraith sprints costing tach her strike, then Tachyon sprints to Wraith's new location and hits her.That is 4 actions for other heroes, but Tachyon that is 2.  Wraith in cover is almost impossible to attack for most heroes, Tachyon can burn her slip and still hit her twice without a single power in play.Beacon can ignore cover, and use bolster allies if set up right to get an attack through.

Maybe I need to go look at Slip into Shadows. I didn't realize Wraith can only use it once per turn.


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Rath
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It occurs to me, surrounding Wraith with a couple Proletariets and initiating an overwhelming swing or sweep would be pretty effective as well.

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Note that it wouldn't prevent her sprint, as you can move through other characters.


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Rath
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I know, but you could push her back to the middle for more whalloping. (Also, I just want more reasons for people to pick the ol' Ruskie.)

Though it did seem like a lot of players in the tournament were unaware you could move through other players, especially in regards enemy players

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I'd say counter tachyon is done well by Ra, hazards from Ra make it hurt to step up for melee attacks and tachyon is low on the health. Plus ending your turn for a pushing the limits would activate them a second time. Ra also deals big damage and tachyon is a glass gatling gun (can't call lots of little attacks a canon after all).

 

Is it legitimate to say that Bunker and Wraith, with their ability to shoot long distance shots, are an effective counter by killing her before she can close with you?

 

Also, Ambuscade punishes melee attacks hard and that's all Tachyon has.

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How does Ambuscade punish melee attacks? Are you talking about his armor?


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arenson9 wrote:

How does Ambuscade punish melee attacks? Are you talking about his armor?

Aside from the +defense die, his armor debuffs characters who hit him with melee attacks.

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Foote wrote:

 

arenson9 wrote:
How does Ambuscade punish melee attacks? Are you talking about his armor?

 

Aside from the +defense die, his armor debuffs characters who hit him with melee attacks.

Yep, though I don't remember how severe the debuff is, but for someone like Tachyon who hits multiple times, that stacking debuff has to hurt

arenson9
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Foote wrote:

 

arenson9 wrote:
How does Ambuscade punish melee attacks? Are you talking about his armor?

 

Aside from the +defense die, his armor debuffs characters who hit him with melee attacks.

I see. "Whenever Ambuscade blocks an attack die of a melee attack, the attacker gains one defense-1 token."

While that would certainly give Tachyon a ton of defense-1 tokens if Tachyon went after Ambuscade, say six times in a row, I'm not sure it would actually make much difference to Tachyon. The way she was played at PAX East was almost with an expectation of being incapped, as if to say, "Yes, you are going to incap me, but I'm going to incap you first and while you're busy taking me down, my teammates are going to damage you and when I stand back up I'm going to incap you again. Let's take turns incapping each other. I go first, so you lose."


Hi. My name's Andy. Feel free to call me Andy, since, ya know, that's my name. (he/him/his)

If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If not now, when? If I am for myself alone, what am I? -- Hillel

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arenson9 wrote:

 

Foote wrote:
 arenson9 wrote:
How does Ambuscade punish melee attacks? Are you talking about his armor? 

 

Aside from the +defense die, his armor debuffs characters who hit him with melee attacks.

I see. "Whenever Ambuscade blocks an attack die of a melee attack, the attacker gains one defense-1 token."While that would certainly give Tachyon a ton of defense-1 tokens if Tachyon went after Ambuscade, say six times in a row, I'm not sure it would actually make much difference to Tachyon. The way she was played at PAX East was almost with an expectation of being incapped, as if to say, "Yes, you are going to incap me, but I'm going to incap you first and while you're busy taking me down, my teammates are going to damage you and when I stand back up I'm going to incap you again. Let's take turns incapping each other. I go first, so you lose."

 

Ah, I thought it was attack -1 tokens and I thought it was two. Shold have dug out the game and checked.

 

Still, the psychology might work, a few players I saw would run back after smashing someone, they didn't want to be incapped. Those tokens plus ambuscade having 4 defense against a 3 attack (if she unrelentingly nimble strikes) makes it a very very risky proposition. From how much christopher complains of defensive strategies we know a lot of people are risk adverse.

 

Also the hand cannon is great for taking out low hp targets, since he essentially needs 1 less damage to kill them. 3 to kill a full health tachyon and 1 is she is half health. Not bad odds with an aim and a +1 attack from melee range.

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The best way I've found to deal with Tachyon is to leave her at 1HP, and avoid incapping her.  Unless she has heals on her team.  She is still effective, but without LSB or PtO, she isn't nearly as deadly.

Mostly she should be banned, because counters to her are so specific it often becomes lose to Tachyon, or lose to her team.  Neither are good choices.

The best team I have rolled out against a Tachyon based team was danger/intercept Legacy, Visionary, and Wraith using combat stance.

If the rest of her team had been well built they probably would have won, but they lacked aoe and we stuck together and visionary used twist+foresight to rule the match.

One of my favorite Tachyon centric teams was Dawn, AZ, Tachyon.

Dawn put Spring into play, and AZ used structures to block line of sight.

Tachyon used push and barrage to open, and got back near Dawn to fully heal from Spring.

Their Wraith couldn't snipe us and 2 HP per round kept Tachyon assaulting, using LSB and returning to cover to heal back up.  AZ spent 3 rounds building structures and aiming.  When they finally got to us Dawn pulled spring for blinding blast and we crushed them.