Is it worth it?

35 posts / 0 new
Last post
Bigbywolfe
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: Jan 27, 2017
Is it worth it?

Okay, so I've been eyeing the $100 tournament bundle and just keep wondering "is it worth it?" I really want the minis and have some other uses for them as well, but the day I was going to pull the trigger and finally just buy it, I see the announcement that GtG is completely dropping all support for Tactics. So, are the minis alone worth 100 bucks? Is the game good enough to be worth owning despite the company abandoning it? Sell me on Tactics (or convince me to stay away).
Thanks.

Powerhound_2000
Powerhound_2000's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 3 min ago
PlaytesterExceeded Expectations
Joined: Sep 14, 2013

You should be able to purchase minis separately if that’s what you are primarily looking for. 


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
Bigbywolfe
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: Jan 27, 2017

Yeah, but getting all three sets of minis pre-painted cost similar to just buying the bundle.
Also, if it wasn't clear, I AM interested in the game, but seeing that GtG isn't my question stands: is it worth picking up at this point?

Comrade Bubbles
Comrade Bubbles's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 10 hours ago
Joined: Aug 26, 2014

It's a competent tactical game. The scenarios are fun, each of the heroes plays recognisably differently, it nails the feeling of using a superhero's powers to change the battlefield and it looks amazing. Seriously, it's some of my favourite boardgame art.

In the interest of honesty, I play solo almost exclusively (so my experience is atypcial) but it's still a blast.


The space/time continuum was broken when I got here. Honest.

Spiff
Spiff's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 4 months ago
PlaytesterExceeded ExpectationsUnique Capabilities
Joined: Sep 09, 2011

The minis aren't top quality, especially painted.  They remind me of the early MageKnight minis in quality (i.e. acceptable but just barely).  They're fun enough though, since they're of all the familiar characters (though, in their Tactics incarnations, so don't expect them to match the outfits from the card game).  IMO, I don't think they're worth $100 and would recommend waiting to see what the newer, higher-quality minis are like that should come with Prime War.  But only you know how badly you want them, so it's up to you. :)


Spiff's SotM site: www.spiffworld.com/sotm
Spiff's Tactics site: www.spiffworld.com/tactics

dprcooke
dprcooke's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 5 days ago
Playtester
Joined: Dec 17, 2013

In the Prime War announcement, they mentioned that they'll be offering a conversion kit to bring Tactics in line with the new ruleset.  (They are hoping to be able to offer the kit for $10).  I suggest reading the what gameplay info there is for Prime War, and deciding whether that game (which will be noticeably different) sounds fun to you.

 

arenson9
arenson9's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 17 min ago
ModeratorPlaytester
Joined: Aug 08, 2011

I am not otherwise a tactical minis player, so I enjoyed that the rules were quite light, for a tactical minis game. I particularly liked the dice system -- how dice encompassed both a range of attack and an ability to block an attack.

I found the skirmish version of the game somewhat 'samey'. There was an awful lot of rush into the center and try to do your biggest attack as soon as possible. On the other hand, in a tournament situation where you get the meta of which characters got chosen for each team, I found it fascinating. I didn't play through many of the packaged scenarios, but I'd take them with a grain of salt. I'm not sure they got the playtesting they needed and some of them are very unbalanced. On the other hand, there were some posted solo and team games/scenarios that looked like a lot of fun, though I never ended up playing them.

You can probably find better tactical minis games -- in fact Prime War will probably be better. If _you_ enjoy the game and can find people to play with (or enjoy solo play) then it could still be great. I have fond memories of many games played. Perhaps try watching some Youtube videos of game play to see if you like it.


Hi. My name's Andy. Feel free to call me Andy, since, ya know, that's my name. (he/him/his)

If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If not now, when? If I am for myself alone, what am I? -- Hillel

CodieH
CodieH's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 4 days ago
Game DesignerPlaytester
Joined: May 21, 2015

Well, bias here as one of the designers of Prime War, I still enjoy Tactics, and my company's love of Tactics is what got us here in the first place. If you want to get the game for the whole experience (game scenarios minis) go for it. You'll have that and with the upgrade kit you will be able to play those characters (though changed for balance and to fit in our system) in Prime War.

If it's just for the minis, meh. I echo sentiments in here, the minis are not the best. Our copy had the aggravating propensity to pop out of their plastic stands whenever we stored them causing us to have to figure out how put them back together everytime we wanted to play.

Edit: Also if you follow Arenson's advice of watching YouTube videos, you should watch us, the owners of Lore Forge, place 2nd as The Adaptive Subroutines in the World Finals. We had some really fun matches there =)


"Quintessential Tactics Experience: Arguing Over Range" - Worlds Tournament 2015

Bigbywolfe
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: Jan 27, 2017

Thanks for weighing in everyone.

MindWanderer
MindWanderer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 24 min ago
Playtester
Joined: Oct 29, 2015

CodieH, follow-up question: I just have The Flame of Freedom.  If I buy the conversion kit and nothing else, will I have a playable game using the Prime War rules?  Or will I need at least the Prime War core set?


Sentinels Statistics Project -- Statistics updated daily!

Submit your games here!

CodieH
CodieH's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 4 days ago
Game DesignerPlaytester
Joined: May 21, 2015

Sorry for the late reply.

However, we're still determining what the conversion kit will consist of, so I can't definitively say. I know we're trying to keep cost low so it's easy to get to people who want the kit. 100% the Flame of Freedom characters will be playable in Prime War with it. However, once we have a more solid answer, I'll be waaay more comfortable answering that question


"Quintessential Tactics Experience: Arguing Over Range" - Worlds Tournament 2015

MindWanderer
MindWanderer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 24 min ago
Playtester
Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Thanks for the answer.

I don't get to go out much, to see demos at cons or whatever, and my friends even less so, so a low-cost way to demo the game this way would go a long way in getting me to buy in.


Sentinels Statistics Project -- Statistics updated daily!

Submit your games here!

Trajector
Trajector's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 59 min ago
Joined: Dec 13, 2014

That's a really interesting idea - would they put the conversion kit out well in advance of the Prime War core game release, so that we can try the new system on the old boards?

silopolis
silopolis's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 1 month ago
Joined: Mar 11, 2015

Do we have any idea what time frame we're looking for with Prime War? I've come to take GtG release estimates with a gallon jug of salt, but I'm getting frustrated hearing about the "Tactics Timeline" on the Letters Page and not seeing any activity relating to the actual game that uses that setting. 

Comrade Bubbles
Comrade Bubbles's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 10 hours ago
Joined: Aug 26, 2014

It's the Mist Storm universe, not the Tactics Timeline, and it has been for a while.

And the official announcement was 12-18 months. Obviously there are things that alter that, but I'm confident in their ability to provide a roughly accurate estimate.


The space/time continuum was broken when I got here. Honest.

Bigbywolfe
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: Jan 27, 2017

Comrade Bubbles wrote:

It's the Mist Storm universe, not the Tactics Timeline, and it has been for a while.And the official announcement was 12-18 months. Obviously there are things that alter that, but I'm confident in their ability to provide a roughly accurate estimate.

Why are you confident in that? They haven't been able to provide an accurate estimate for OblivAeon, Earth Prime, the RPG, the Tactics Pre-Order for the game that is literally not going to exist. Has GtG ever has an accurate estimate on any of their products?

Comrade Bubbles
Comrade Bubbles's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 10 hours ago
Joined: Aug 26, 2014

Because this is something they've done before. OblivAeon grew in scope and had the case, I can't speak for Earth-Prime but I can't imagine the OblivAeon delay helped there, the RPG has been pushed back because Kickstarters still needing fulfillment and the Tactics pre-order was so long ago with a game they decided needed improving upon that I'm happy to wait for the product I paid for.
 

I'm also willing to give them the benefit of the doubt considering this part of the announcement:

"Given our the history of delays and false starts with Prime War, we are unable to honestly guarantee a specific release date. However, given the speed at which development has been happening the last few months, it seems very likely that Prime War will be released some time in the next 12-18 months. We are not planning a Kickstarter campaign for this product, which speeds up the timeline quite a bit. In addition, we are starting an intensive playtesting campaign for Prime War in August, as soon as the intensive playtesting cycle for Sentinels of Earth-Prime is completed. Once that gets underway, we should have a clearer idea of the targeted release date."

If anything else, at this point, I'm pretty sure they have a good idea about turnaround time for a project they're in complete control of.

Plus, it's just a game. Yes, I paid years ago for it. Yes, I would like it now. But stuff happens. They're still going to honour my purchase, so it's all good by me.


The space/time continuum was broken when I got here. Honest.

fenianb
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: Jan 16, 2012

I can dig up the previous updates regarding Broken City and For Profit where they likewise said they were confident in the (at the time) current development while they were advising of delays. They've given this line more than once. They outsourced the game development for Prime War to Lore Forge Games a year ago and didn't mention it despite frequent requests for anything at all about the status of the game. GTG has stonewalled the customers for years regarding the status of Prime War other than a rote it will be done when it's done and they won't say anything more about it. Whatever we may think of their products, their service and customer appreciation leaves much to be desired IMO. I'm through with any other GTG Kickstarters and pre-orders. As for Oblivaeon and Prime War, I'll believe them when it is on my doostep, not before.

Comrade Bubbles
Comrade Bubbles's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 10 hours ago
Joined: Aug 26, 2014

And it's your right to do so.

I thought Lore Forge were involved (as in, the creators) with Tactics as well.

I'm not saying the communication has been great, by the way. I'm just happy to accept their honest estimate.


The space/time continuum was broken when I got here. Honest.

fenianb
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: Jan 16, 2012

The people who make up Lore Forge were tourney players of Sentinel Tactics, not designers.

Edit: please note I do not say this to disparage them, only to clarify the facts. I look forward to seeing what they will do with the property, however they are a fledgling game company with only playing experience in their CV, and knowing this may have affected people's decisions to maintain their investment in Prime War.

Foote
Foote's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
PlaytesterHarmony
Joined: Apr 09, 2013

fenianb wrote:

The people who make up Lore Forge were tourney players of Sentinel Tactics, not designers.

Are those mutually exclusive? Are you saying that Lore Forge folks couldn’t possibly be both former players at a convention and game designers in their own right?

 

That aside, I think it’s normal to feel skeptical about any announcement for timelines on Prime War. But if you’re looking for reasons to be reasons to be reassured about it outside of “just wait until it’s ready or get your refund”, I would wager you won’t find much satisfaction. If you’re on the fence about the game, just wait till it’s ohysically released and decide then if you wanna purchase it. 

 

From what I have seen personally, I’m pretty excited about the direction the redesign went, and I’m content to allow GTG to hold my original Broken City preorder to get the new game because I think the wait will be worth my time. If that’s not you, refunds are available. 

fenianb
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: Jan 16, 2012

I specifically asked Lore Forge Games on July 5th on their facebook page anouncment about their experience, as I did not want to presume on their individual or group prior experiences. I asked "can you tell us anything else about your company and what you have done otherwise?" 

Their response: "Sure! We're a board game design and development firm based in Virginia Beach who love the Sentinels lore and gameplay, and this will be our first published game!
"We're so excited to have everyone play this game, and we can't wait to show off the progress that's been made over the last year.
"As to what we have done? Hmmm... we've traveled, cooked, studied law, biology, engineering, psychology, pet a lot of dogs, played a goodly number of games, placed second in the last competitive game published by Greater Than Games, and have been working hard for the last year or so to make Prime War the best game it can be!
"I hope that answers some of your questions, and we'll have a time dedicated to answering Prime War questions sometime in the near future!"

As I've said elsewhere on these boards I'm retired and can let my money ride to see what develops and I have paid for my seat at the table to comment and question the progress. I will state facts as I know them and have verified, I welcome correction when I am wrong. I try to express personal conjecture and feelings as that of my own opinion, explaining how I reach those conclusions. I know this weekend GTG and LFG focus is appropriately on GenCon and demos and testing there, and I look forward to seeing what may come out of those sessions. But I have no illusions on the past history of this project and will be at best reservedly hopeful for the results rather than the optimism I used to put in GTG products.

MindWanderer
MindWanderer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 24 min ago
Playtester
Joined: Oct 29, 2015

I have to admit I'm getting a little disillusioned with >G.  The original company was Christopher, Adam, and Paul.  Christopher and Adam did the game mechanics (and let's be honest, that was mostly Christopher).  They made SotM, which was fantastic, but what else have they done?  Tactics was competent but flawed to the point where they decided to start over rather than continue the line.  Prime War is being developed by Lore Forged.  The RPG is being developed by Critical Hits.  Spirit Island, Bottom of the 9th, Legend of Sleepy Hollow, Exoplanets, Fate of the Elder Gods, Lazer Ryderz, all developed by either other studios or freelancers.  >G isn't a developer anymore, it's a publisher.  And that provides very little insight into the quality of their products.


Sentinels Statistics Project -- Statistics updated daily!

Submit your games here!

bobbertoriley
bobbertoriley's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 25 min ago
Playtester
Joined: Aug 31, 2015

Not to mention you, like most people, forgot about Galactic Strike Force. Also a very mixed reaction to that game.

Spiff
Spiff's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 4 months ago
PlaytesterExceeded ExpectationsUnique Capabilities
Joined: Sep 09, 2011

MindWanderer wrote:

They made SotM, which was fantastic, but what else have they done?  ... >G isn't a developer anymore, it's a publisher.

That was my original point exactly.  I wish nothing but good things for them but I don't think the evidence supports the conviction that they'll always produce great games.  They mostly seem to produce podcasts now. ;)


Spiff's SotM site: www.spiffworld.com/sotm
Spiff's Tactics site: www.spiffworld.com/tactics

dprcooke
dprcooke's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 5 days ago
Playtester
Joined: Dec 17, 2013

fenianb wrote:

Whatever we may think of their products, their service and customer appreciation leaves much to be desired IMO. I'm through with any other GTG Kickstarters and pre-orders. As for Oblivaeon and Prime War, I'll believe them when it is on my doostep, not before.

I would actually be inclined to argue that the mere existence of Prime War is proof of GTG’s appreciation of its customers.  And here’s why:

The Broken City/For Profit pre-order campaign did noticeably worse that the Villains of the Multiverse pre-order campaign that they ran in-house at the same time.  I don’t remember the exact numbers, but I do remember thinking that it had done significantly less well, meaning that GtG brought in a LOT less $ for Broken City than they did for Villains.  They then spent at least a few months working on the game, with us knowing from The Letters Page that at the very least they developed a good chunk of story.

Then came the disappointing sales figures for Tactics.  (In fairness Tactics would’ve had lower sales numbers prior to the Broken City pre-order campaign, but from what they’ve mentioned publicly we do know that GtG spent a fair bit of time/energy/money promoting Tactics by running tournaments at various cons, and that those promotions did not result in the sales numbers they had been hoping for).  So now we have a game that’s not doing as well as SOTM within the GtG fan base and is performing poorly in retail.  Poorly enough that the company had lost money on Tactics.  Based on comparing pre-orders between Villains and Broken City, it was likely going to take more than just a new expansion to fix Tactics’ problems.

Now, in the Fall preceding the OblivAeon release GtG was really struggling cash-wise, so there wasn’t much they could do.  Until just after OblivAeon.

Speaking from a purely financial perspective, the best thing in my mind that GtG could have done after receiving their OblivAeon cash is immediately cancel Broken City and provide full refunds to every backer.  Why?  Because this would have been a LOT cheaper than what they did instead.  And what did they do instead?  They spent the next two and a half years working on tactics/prime war.  I’m sure there was a very large amount “back burner” delays in there, but even the back burner costs money.  I think it’s safe to say that whatever money they got from pre-orders was fully used up a long time ago.

Which brings us to today.  As it stands GtG has now spent years developing two different products.  It’s not doing another Kickstarter/pre-order and therefore has no way to gauge demand for the product in advance.  So they’re going in blind, spending yet more money up front on a thus-far-unprofitable product line with poor sales, poor pre-orders, and a non-insignificant number of angry customers.  That does not sound to me like a recipe for success.

One of the basic principles of investing is “never send good money after bad”, and GtG has been doing that with Tactics/Prime War for YEARS, with no guaranteed payout at the end and most available data seemingly suggesting there will be no payout.  (Again, financially speaking, Broken City should have been dumped the second they received their OblivAeon cash.)

So, why would GtG spend years sinking money and time into Tactics/Prime War?  Well, it could be that (1) C&A love Sentinels so much that they’re convinced Prime War will somehow succeed because they love it so much, and have convinced everyone else that this will somehow work; (2) the GtG staff are simply blind to the facts; or (3) they appreciate the fact that a bunch of customers wanted the product and were willing to pay in advance for it, and come hell or high water they’re going to deliver some kind of product to those customers.

Those three possibilities aren’t mutually exclusive, and there could potentially be other reasons I’m missing, but I have no reason to believe that C&A/the GtG staff are either too in love with their baby or too stupid to see the plain facts in front of them, which for the moment at least leads me to conclude that #3 is the reason we’re getting Prime War at all.

Of course, none of this means that Prime War will be any good, or that it will perform well even if it is.  It also doesn’t mean that GtG couldn’t have communicated much better throughout the process.  Or that we should take their shipping estimates as written in stone.   Questioning all of those seems perfectly reasonable.  What I don’t yet have cause to question is GtG’s motives/appreciation for its customers.

(On a semi-related side note, I recently read an interesting article about how NASA’s can-do attitude and spirit of optimism cause it to continuously and gravely underestimate projects costs and timelines.  It was a very interesting article, and almost every other paragraph made me think of GtG in some way).

fenianb
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: Jan 16, 2012

Quote:
So, why would GtG spend years sinking money and time into Tactics/Prime War? (1)...(2)...(3)....

(4) They didn't. To me it seems they've been pushing it off repeatedly in favor of other projects, thus taking a long term interest free loan from their customers and paying it back piecemeal as individuals request refunds or they someday complete it. I'm not saying their intent was never to fulfill Prime War promises, just that it appears to me to have been repeatedly given lowest priority and now we're informed outsourced for a year.

MindWanderer
MindWanderer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 24 min ago
Playtester
Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Additionally, we don't know what their arrangement with Lore Forged is.  Given that Prime War is their debut effort, it may have been as simple as, "Do what you can, and if it's good when you're all done, we'll help you playtest and publish it for you, in exchange for a cut of the profits."  In that case it would have cost >G no money and very little time.

bobbertoriley wrote:

Not to mention you, like most people, forgot about Galactic Strike Force. Also a very mixed reaction to that game.

Actually, I got that list by going through their store page, which sorts by Most Recommended.  GSF is near the end of that list.

 


Sentinels Statistics Project -- Statistics updated daily!

Submit your games here!

fenianb
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: Jan 16, 2012

I wouldn't speculate on the contract between GTG and LFG without additional info. There's no point in it other than assuming they both think it will be beneficial to themselves.

dprcooke
dprcooke's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 5 days ago
Playtester
Joined: Dec 17, 2013

fenianb wrote:

Quote:

So, why would GtG spend years sinking money and time into Tactics/Prime War? (1)...(2)...(3)....

(4) They didn't. To me it seems they've been pushing it off repeatedly in favor of other projects, thus taking a long term interest free loan from their customers and paying it back piecemeal as individuals request refunds or they someday complete it. I'm not saying their intent was never to fulfill Prime War promises, just that it appears to me to have been repeatedly given lowest priority and now we're informed outsourced for a year.

I love an interest-free loan as much as the next guy, but I don't think there were enough pre-orders for "interest-free loan" to be a meaningful reason for any extended period of time.  Up until Fall 2015 they were still promoting Tactics heavily, so putting Broken City on the back burner wouldn't have made sense.  And come Feb 2016 they had OblivAeon cash.  There probably were a few months in late 2015 where this was the case, while the company was really tight on cash and it had become clear that Tactics was underperforming, but that's about the only time-frame during which I see "interest-free loan" as being a significant motivating factor.

And we do know they were doing some work on it.  Clearly there was a fair bit of story work done, and the playtesters have commented at various points about getting stuff to playtest, including revisions.  Heck, even if all playtest coordination and rules changes were being worked on by an unpaid volunteer, that was all time and effort that could have been devoted to a more profitable/more promising product.

As for the game being given lowest priority, I have no illusions that Tactics/Prime War has spent the last 3.5 years on the front burner and never the back one.  But that's not inconsistent with my reason #3.  "I want to get this product to you, but it's going to require a lot of my limited time, and OblivAeon is paying the bills and has 40x the number of backers, so I'm going to have to make that happen first."

In effect, I do think Tactics/Prime War has probably been on the back burner for a while, but it's still been on the stove [long past the likely point after which it became financially inadvisable for GtG to keep it there].

Donner
Donner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 4 hours ago
Playtester
Joined: Mar 30, 2013

I played a demo version of Prime War at GenCon.  The PvP was fast paced and the combat system was a lot better than Tactics in many ways.  I enjoyed it much more than I was expecting.  It has a similar feel to Tactics character-wise but gameplay-wise it is better.  To me it felt like what we were expecting from Tactics originally.  They had all new characters in the demo, so I am curious as to how the original characters will feel in their system.


"Deja-fu? You've heard of that?"
- Lu Tze, Sweeper, Thief of Time by Terry Pratchett

godzilla999666
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 3 months ago
Joined: Sep 30, 2014

Considering the only thing used from the old game that will get used inthe new game is the miniatures. definietly not worth it.  Heck considering that the people making the new game have never made a game before and have already been at it over a year are 2 very bad indicators that the new game is worth anything.  3 years is my limit, time for refund.

 

Comrade Bubbles
Comrade Bubbles's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 10 hours ago
Joined: Aug 26, 2014

godzilla999666 wrote:

Considering the only thing used from the old game that will get used inthe new game is the miniatures. definietly not worth it.  Heck considering that the people making the new game have never made a game before and have already been at it over a year are 2 very bad indicators that the new game is worth anything.  3 years is my limit, time for refund. 

I don't understand your problem here. I think it's that people who have never made a game before have taken over a year to make something that is going to begin intensive playtesting soon?


The space/time continuum was broken when I got here. Honest.

Donner
Donner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 4 hours ago
Playtester
Joined: Mar 30, 2013

godzilla999666 wrote:

Considering the only thing used from the old game that will get used inthe new game is the miniatures. definietly not worth it.  Heck considering that the people making the new game have never made a game before and have already been at it over a year are 2 very bad indicators that the new game is worth anything.  3 years is my limit, time for refund. 

So everyone who ever makes a game has to have made a game first?  Who then makes the first game?  And what’s wrong with taking over a year to make a game?  Try making one yourself.  It takes a lot of time as you learn what is good and what is bad, what needs fixed, what needs improved, and what parts of the original idea you just don’t like anymore.  Coming up with the idea for a game is just the first step.  And in the end, although the core idea may remain, the outside no longer resembles what it was originally.

As I said before, I have played the game.  Multiple times.  And it played better than Tactics.  I’m not some schill.  I am someone who loves Tactics and wished they had continued with it.  But they didn’t, and Prime War is a better version.  So, if you liked Tactics, you’ll find this one works better, IMO.


"Deja-fu? You've heard of that?"
- Lu Tze, Sweeper, Thief of Time by Terry Pratchett

Foote
Foote's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
PlaytesterHarmony
Joined: Apr 09, 2013

godzilla999666 wrote:

Considering the only thing used from the old game that will get used inthe new game is the miniatures. definietly not worth it.  Heck considering that the people making the new game have never made a game before and have already been at it over a year are 2 very bad indicators that the new game is worth anything.  3 years is my limit, time for refund. 

Show me an example of long development times leading to worse games and I promise I’ll provide triple the examples of the opposite effect. I got the time If you do.

I’m squinting as hard as I possibly can and I still can’t see how you could possibly ground this argument in something resembling reality.