Haka letters page confusion!

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Haka letters page confusion!

Warning spoilers below.

Today I learned in the letters page that in all the multiverse there are only 2 Hakas. However, I count more Hakas than that. I can see Savage Haka and Eternal Haka being the same person just from different times. However where does Extreme Prime Wardens Haka come from. It was very specifically stated who the other Haka is and it was not Extreme Prime Wardens Haka. I am very confused by this. What did I miss here?


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My understanding is this (but I may be off because I found it a bit confusing):

-There were more than 2 Haka's before the OblivAeon event.

-During the OblivAeon event, someone or something linked 2 of these Haka's together such that neither could die if the other was still alive.

-This effect carries both forward and backward in time and is actually the source of Haka's immortality

-However, for Hakas other than the 2 that were linked they were erased from existance/ merged with 2 linked Hakas.

 

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The XTREME Prime Wardens are kinda weird in general, since the fact that they're on the cover of Prime Wardens #1 suggests they're still our Prime Wardens who were just going through that unfortunate 90s fashion period at the time, yet later on they're distinctly presented as alternate universe versions instead.

(My new insane theory is that the portal was really time travel, our Prime Wardens didn't realize it because they were so embarrassed by their past phase that they collectively blanked the matter out of their minds as a coping mechanism after it was over, and other heroes have just been too polite to remind them it ever happened.)


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I understood the same thing as Dandolo above : timey wimey shenanigans.

Someone, or something, or some cosmic entity, decided that an immortal warrior was a good thing to have to fight against OblivAeon. As the event unfolded, this entity X erased all incarnations of Haka from their respective realities and used their mana to link the lives of his two favorites - in the past.

The cause of Haka's immortality happenned six or more centuries after he became immortal.. Of course, if it does explain how the other Hakas disappeared, it does not explain how they, too, became immortals in their time lines. But with time travelling, reality altering entities, things rarely make sense for less enlightened beings.

I guess we'll understand better when the Authors will finally tell us WHO created Haka - it seems it will be coming in a future episode...

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It is a bit of a paradox, but Eternal Haka both existed for a time as the ultimate end to our Haka and ceased to exist during the Oblivaeon event when someone created the Hero Haka by combing all the versions of Haka into two beings.

 

IT is super weird and makes very little sense, because time and reality were bent like a pretzel due to OBlivaeon and Nightmist and who knows what else.

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"Retcon : puts the bretzel in your realities !"


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Can someone refresh me why we think the XPW are alternate-reality versions? I guess because they show up in the OblivAeon fight as revealed in the ARG?

 

My impression of the kind of vague explanations is that there are sometimes more than two Hakas as timelines split off. But for all the Hakas that aren't in the main timeline and the timeline of Arataki Wakarewarewa eventually get folded in to those two. That would account for things like "extra" Hakas from time to time.

uu
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Yea it seems to work in the sentinels universe that multiverse accure at a point of choices creating two or more universes in the process maybe these other versions arent built im to main hakas untilmuch later. Makes sense to me for some reason.


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Once we start needing new verb tenses to describe sequences of achronal events, good luck with words.

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I just call it Comic Book Logic. Does it sound cool, ok don't worry how it works.


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I have basically two problems with this explanation.  (I can wrap my brain around most of it because it works the same way as how Visionary was able to travel across dimensions after the OblivAeon event because it "hadn't happened yet" 5th-dimensionally.)

  1. There are definitely multiple Aatas that are definitely immortal.  Even if XPW Haka is a time-traveler from the core timeline (which I don't buy, since Time v. Time specifically says they're from an alternate reality), Christopher and Adam specifically mentioned the Iron Legacy timeline Haka.  So somehow, even though this mysterious individual (I'm betting on La Comodora) somehow condensed them all into one retroactively, all of them became immortal (or else they'd have died almost 600 years prior).  Now, it's possible that all these other Aatas are immortal--bound to the lives of alternate-universe Aratakis--but don't have core Haka's strength.  But it would be very odd indeed, since at least the ones we know of are strong enough to join the Prime Wardens and to threaten Iron Legacy.
  2. After OblivAeon, there are still at least two Aatas!  The RPG and Tactics timelines each have their own, even though the RPG one spoilers spoilers spoilers.

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MindWanderer wrote:
.After OblivAeon, there are still at least two Aatas!  The RPG and Tactics timelines each have their own, even though the RPG one spoilers spoilers spoilers.

Yes. C&A said that there were exactly two Hakas (not Aatas), and there are. One in Tactics, one in the RPG.

If you're thinking of the mist-gated Aata, presumably that one was combined into the "build a Haka" spell and doesn't exist anymore.


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dpt wrote:

Can someone refresh me why we think the XPW are alternate-reality versions? I guess because they show up in the OblivAeon fight as revealed in the ARG? My impression of the kind of vague explanations is that there are sometimes more than two Hakas as timelines split off. But for all the Hakas that aren't in the main timeline and the timeline of Arataki Wakarewarewa eventually get folded in to those two. That would account for things like "extra" Hakas from time to time.

This one is weird so I'll tackle it.

PW #1, as published in the Sentinel Comics world, was in the 90s. Hence why the cover has them looking all 90-fied. That was just the art style then.

Oblivaeon event is likely published somewhere in the 00's or 10's. When cementing the idea of the larger multiverse for the Oblivaeon fight, the writers brought in a PW team from another universe, but used their retro 90's looks for some cool throwbacks.

 

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Here's the thing -- they said our Haka was mist-gated away, and thus wasn't part of the Tactics timeline.

And then he shows up anyway.

Does something re-open a connection between realities?

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Arcanist Lupus wrote:
Yes. C&A said that there were exactly two Hakas (not Aatas), and there are. One in Tactics, one in the RPG.

If you're thinking of the mist-gated Aata, presumably that one was combined into the "build a Haka" spell and doesn't exist anymore.

I'm not sure I buy that.  "Haka" was created in order to fight OblivAeon.  RPG-Aata was sealed in the other reality after the need for "Haka" had passed.  So if there was a specific point in time before which there were multiple Aatas and after which there was only one, it was before RPG-Aata was lost.

mwc146 wrote:
Here's the thing -- they said our Haka was mist-gated away, and thus wasn't part of the Tactics timeline.And then he shows up anyway.Does something re-open a connection between realities?
They weren't very careful about explaining this, but my understanding is that Tactics-Aata was in the core reality (or rather, the Tactics reality at that point) when the gates were closed.  Only RPG-Aata was off exploring when it happened.

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MindWanderer wrote:

 

mwc146 wrote:
Here's the thing -- they said our Haka was mist-gated away, and thus wasn't part of the Tactics timeline.And then he shows up anyway.Does something re-open a connection between realities?

 

They weren't very careful about explaining this, but my understanding is that Tactics-Aata was in the core reality (or rather, the Tactics reality at that point) when the gates were closed.  Only RPG-Aata was off exploring when it happened.

The sense I get is that the circumstances of Haka's powers mean there aren't, indeed can't be, "Tactics-Aata" and "RPG-Aata." The only two realities that have an Aata, any version of anything like Aata, are the reality with the Haka we know, and the reality with the Other Haka. How that interacts with the nature of Oblivaeon and the collapse of realities and the shoring up of reality thereafter I don't know.

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mwc146 wrote:

Here's the thing -- they said our Haka was mist-gated away, and thus wasn't part of the Tactics timeline.And then he shows up anyway.Does something re-open a connection between realities?

I think the reason they side-stepped this question is a super hard way has to do with the story of what Prime War is about. Whatever Prime War actually is might be directly related to how the hell our original Haka shows up after being stuck in another reality post Oblivaeons defeat which was supposed to make getting home impossible.

 

@mindwanderer: Haka was in other realities recruiting ppl to fight obliveaon. I'm almost 99% sure that he was still in those other realities during the time when Oblivaeon destroys Rook City (and when the timelines for the two games split). It doesn't make sense to me why haka would go back into the mists post this point since Nightmist was already dead at this time.

Also, the RPG and Tactics are two different universes within the entire multiverse. Post Oblivaeon there are only 2 Hakas within the multiverse. So there is the female Haka and the male one. Female haka is in the RPG as the main Haka, and somehow due to Prime War (whatever that means), the other Haka shows back up. In other words, as long as our original Haka is in the Tactics timeline, it can't ever show back up in the RPG, unless he leaves the Tactics universe somehow and goes to the RPG one.

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Foote wrote:
 @mindwanderer: Haka was in other realities recruiting ppl to fight obliveaon. I'm almost 99% sure that he was still in those other realities during the time when Oblivaeon destroys Rook City (and when the timelines for the two games split). It doesn't make sense to me why haka would go back into the mists post this point since Nightmist was already dead at this time.Also, the RPG and Tactics are two different universes within the entire multiverse. Post Oblivaeon there are only 2 Hakas within the multiverse. So there is the female Haka and the male one. Female haka is in the RPG as the main Haka, and somehow due to Prime War (whatever that means), the other Haka shows back up. In other words, as long as our original Haka is in the Tactics timeline, it can't ever show back up in the RPG, unless he leaves the Tactics universe somehow and goes to the RPG one.
Except that they explicitly said that Aata gets "locked out of this reality," that "he's not able to come back into this reality, and there's no more reality hopping because OblivAeon's gone."  If, at the moment OblivAeon is defeated, all the alternate Hakas are condensed into those two (Prime War and Arataki), Aata wouldn't be "able to come back into this reality" because he doesn't exist anymore, reality-hopping or not.

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Tactics is a separate reality from the RPG so I don't see how he would be excluded from ending up in the Tactis reality when he got cut off.   At this point we have to wait for Prime War to get further explanation on how he ended up in the Tactics reality.   My guess is related to the Block which only exists in the Tactics reality.  My other thought is possibly something the Terminarch does. 


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I'm pretty sure the Hakas were condenced before Oblivaeon was defeated. 

And again. There is still a multiverse. All those multiple realities still exist (except for a few) because Oblivaeon wasn't sucessfull in his goal. We beat him. Obviously the "cant travel between them anymore" only applies until it doesn't anymore, since we know Haka comes back in the Tactics universe. 

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I'm pretty certain that the Hakas were condensed before OblivAeon was defeated, because they note that the best chance at killing Haka was when both of them where in the same place: fighting OblivAeon.

My confusing stems from the ARG. Didn't the PW fight the XPW shortly before OblivAeon?

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That's occurred to me too, but I feel like that's in the same category as Eternal Haka, which is to say, "um." With a side of "that close to Oblivaeon, things go sideways."

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There is the possibility that XPW Haka isn't Arataki Wakarewarewa.

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I was assuming it wasn't. I mean, XPW Haka is male, so.

The thing is, up until Tuesday, I would have just said "it's an alternate Haka." Except now we know there's no such thing except Arataki.

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bluedarky wrote:
There is the possibility that XPW Haka isn't Arataki Wakarewarewa.
XPW Haka is definitely Aata.  Arataki is a woman from another reality altogether.  This is very clear from the podcast.

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Come on, guys! All you need to do is add three or four extra temporal dimensions while thinking about this and it all makes perfect sense! This should be easy! :D


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Arcanist Lupus wrote:

Come on, guys! All you need to do is add three or four extra temporal dimensions while thinking about this and it all makes perfect sense! This should be easy! :D

But then you need to use the pluperfect flawed sense for the cotemporal and the postectve dimensional tense for the secantemporal and this is why grammar gets annoying...

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Hey, I'm gonna add more confusion and a lack of understanding to this!

The whole thing with the XPW and Eternal Haka thing is that alternate more than 2 versions of Haka exist... for a time. Remember, time doesn't run "linearly" when we're talking about the multiverse. Just because Eternal Haka's calender says he's in the future, his point in "space time" could be in 600 years in our past. I also think there was mention of him existing and "then going off to be absorbed" when the question of how did he meet the heroes came up? I might not be remembering correctly.

All this to say, I think the alternate dimension versions of Haka HAVE to exist by the nature of alternate dimensions, but eventually they don't. We may have more revealed when a certain pirate villain-turned-hero who has shown the power to destroy timelines on a kickstarter update has their own episode (or someone else if I'm totally barking up the wrong tree).

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This is from the notes WalkingTarget on it   

TheLettersPage wrote:

How do his powers/resurrection work? Does he die and slowly regenerate over days or is it more immediate? Are there limits (would decapitation or vaporization kill him for good or would he just appear again later)? Does his strength increase each time he's defeated? So, there will be some "how" and "why" of some of this in a later episode, but here's the "what". As a result of OblivAeon, there's an entity that sees that a champion is necessary, somebody who can go toe-to-toe with these threats. "Our" Haka and an alternate reality version of Haka are bound together across space-time at the cost of all other versions of him. There are a lot of alternate versions of this person, but after this event there are only two who each have the strength, vitality, life, etc. of all of the rest. This is what gives him his heroic attributes, but the other one he's still linked to is why he's unkillable - as long as one is alive the other cannot die (taking both out simultaneously is the only way to get rid of him - generally not a worry since they're in different universes). Then OblivAeon starts blurring those lines and they both wind up in the same battles. They don't know how any of this works (but somebody does - more later in that person's story). You could not decapitate him or vaporize him as his link to the other would prevent his death. Iron Legacy just had to encase him in a block of something durable and drop him into the ocean to keep him out of his way, but that didn't kill him. His strength isn't going up based on deaths, it's just going up over time as he absorbs more life energy from the other realities' versions of him. Eternal Haka has been around so long that he can't even really be knocked out anymore (his incap art doesn't show him beaten physically, just by circumstance). The "only 2 versions of him" thing is weird as it happens over time - they talk about these different versions of him, but we see them before they get erased by these time shenanigans, and then more realities branch off due to events as normal, but eventually those versions' Hakas will get erased too.


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I asked a question immediately after the episode based on the episode about the multiverse no longer being "travelable", given the above information (thanks WalkingTarget and Powerhound_2000 for making it easy to reference) something must be able to move between realities to check/power up the Hakas, even if it's just energy. Couldn't someone use that to track or possibly communicate with other realities?


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You know, rereading the stuff from Walking Target, I think we're looking at this slightly incorrectly.

 

I've been picturing this "collapse" of alternate Hakas into Aata as as nearly instant. BAM only two Hakas exist. But, that isn't what they are describing. They're describing a much slower proccess, a gradual drain of Haka into Aata and Aatawari instead of a collapse. This explains how XTREME Haka and Eternal HAka can still be around. They have absorbed other Hakas, but they have not yet been absorbed themselves because they are so close to the wall of the funnel.

 

And, while the Oblivaeon fight is the catalyst for the entity to do this thing, they must go back 600 years to actually do the thing, which because time shenangins could have happened nearly instantly even if it took them a long time to get the proccess and work it on Aata.

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For me the funniest thing about this whole story is that, if Haka gains his (hers) powers from the fusing of all the other haka - where do the powers of these other Haka come from ?

This said, it all makes sense if you remember that this is a story told in another universe by authors trough the years... When the OblivAeon story explaining Haka's power was published, it was because an author decided that it was a fun idea to retroactively explain Haka's power by something happening now. Nobody prior knew it would ever happen, and so there were other powered Hakas everywhere.

In other words, the OblivAeon authors retconned the whole history of Haka, creating gordian plotknots in the process - but, waow, it was a cool idea.

As for the tactics/RPG timelines and Ataa being in the Tactics one : remember that, as Christopher explained, in the "author's universe", the Tactics timeline was published long after the RPG one : the RPG one is the direct continuation of OblivAeon, at least from a publishing point of view - so Ataa Haka ended up in another timeline, lost for good for years to the readers. (I guess the idea of seeing Ataa again was a selling point for the Tactics books!)

Timey Wimey can already be cause for headaches, but if you add russian dolls universes, with Christopher and Adam in our universe, imagining that in another universe a comic book about another universe is published, and try to explain this last universe itself without refering to the two higher level ones, trying to make sense of things can break your sanity and lead you to the Cult of Gloom's next swamp grill party !


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TheSoundOfTrees wrote:

For me the funniest thing about this whole story is that, if Haka gains his (hers) powers from the fusing of all the other haka - where do the powers of these other Haka come from ?

I mean, you combine fifty dudes lifting a thing, that thing will get lifted even if any one of them couldn't lift it by themselves.

Also, Highlander. Or am I thinking of that movie with Jet Li that I never saw?

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TakeWalker wrote:

 

TheSoundOfTrees wrote:
For me the funniest thing about this whole story is that, if Haka gains his (hers) powers from the fusing of all the other haka - where do the powers of these other Haka come from ?

 

I mean, you combine fifty dudes lifting a thing, that thing will get lifted even if any one of them couldn't lift it by themselves.

 

And this is Haka we're talking about. Before his Ta Moko disappeared (which I believe is likely the point where he gained his powers), he was a already close to the Maori ideal as a cheif.

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LevelUpLeo wrote:

 

TakeWalker wrote:
 TheSoundOfTrees wrote:
For me the funniest thing about this whole story is that, if Haka gains his (hers) powers from the fusing of all the other haka - where do the powers of these other Haka come from ? 

 

I mean, you combine fifty dudes lifting a thing, that thing will get lifted even if any one of them couldn't lift it by themselves.

 And this is Haka we're talking about. Before his Ta Moko disappeared (which I believe is likely the point where he gained his powers), he was a already close to the Maori ideal as a cheif.

 

No, what I mean is : Haka became an immortal warrior because of the "fusing" of all Hakas/Ataa. Ok, so far so good.

But the other Hakas we know (Eternal Haka, for instance) are ALSO immortal warriors in their own timelines. With the same powers as "our" Haka. The fact that we know that, at least in some timelines, other immortal Hakas existed makes the explanation behind the fact that the immortality of the only two "true" Haka comes from the fusing a paradox.


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Well, it depends on how the 'fusing' works.  If the fusing happens sequentially, with the spell (or whatever) 'feeding' Hakas to the main two Hakas one at a time, then you are right, it doesn't make sense.  But it would also be horribly inefficient.  Instead, you could do a binary fusing, where Hakas are paired and fused, repeat until there are only two left.  This would go much faster.  Also, it means that all Hakas would grow in power (up until the point where they get fused away) rather than just the two final ones.


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This idea of combining the power of multiple people across the multiverse reminds me of a Jet Li movie. Don't remember the name, maybe The One?


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Pydro wrote:

This idea of combining the power of multiple people across the multiverse reminds me of a Jet Li movie. Don't remember the name, maybe The One?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking of!

I mean, to answer this question, you need to ask things like "What is power?" and I am just not good at philosophy. :B It makes sense to me that if you combine two guys, those guys will get stronger per their own natural traits, and if you combine thousands and thousands of guys, those traits will slowly add up to superhuman proportions, because that's a lot of dudes.

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Arcanist Lupus wrote:

Well, it depends on how the 'fusing' works.  If the fusing happens sequentially, with the spell (or whatever) 'feeding' Hakas to the main two Hakas one at a time, then you are right, it doesn't make sense.  But it would also be horribly inefficient.  Instead, you could do a binary fusing, where Hakas are paired and fused, repeat until there are only two left.  This would go much faster.  Also, it means that all Hakas would grow in power (up until the point where they get fused away) rather than just the two final ones.

 

This is what I was trying to picture with my funnel analogy.

 

There are other powered Haka's "earlier" in the meta-timeline because those Haka's were also gathering points for the energy of Haka, which then collapsed further into other Haka's who had been gathering power, until we were only left with 2 Haka's in totality.

 

I just didn't know how to look up the name for what I was picturing which is a slightly different picture than your explanation of Binary Fusing (which is probably more accurate) gives me.

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I hope most of these questions get answered when we get to the "How" from whoever did it (I'm also assuming La Comodora here, since she's the most likely to be able to as well as being this month).

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The "fusing of all the other Hakas" explanation doesn't make mathematical sense. If there are an infinite number of realities in the multiverse, and the strength and vitality of the Hakas in all of those realities gets condensed into the two main Hakas, then those two Hakas have infinite strength and vitality. As in, there should literally be nothing they can't lift because they have infinite strength. And their strength can't increase as more realities split off and those new Hakas are condensed into the main Hakas because you can't increase infinity. 

Sounds like Haka's backstory may have a little more "because... comics" in it than they intended. ;)


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corran109
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Spiff wrote:

The "fusing of all the other Hakas" explanation doesn't make mathematical sense. If there are an infinite number of realities in the multiverse, and the strength and vitality of the Hakas in all of those realities gets condensed into the two main Hakas, then those two Hakas have infinite strength and vitality. As in, there should literally be nothing they can't lift because they have infinite strength. And their strength can't increase as more realities split off and those new Hakas are condensed into the main Hakas because you can't increase infinity. Sounds like Haka's backstory may have a little more "because... comics" in it than they intended. ;)

To be fair, unless another reality was split off before he was born, there would be no new Hakas. Also, depending on how you judge XPW's Haka appearing before OblivAeon, some Hakas are fused from the future.

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Spiff wrote:

The "fusing of all the other Hakas" explanation doesn't make mathematical sense. If there are an infinite number of realities in the multiverse, and the strength and vitality of the Hakas in all of those realities gets condensed into the two main Hakas, then those two Hakas have infinite strength and vitality. As in, there should literally be nothing they can't lift because they have infinite strength. And their strength can't increase as more realities split off and those new Hakas are condensed into the main Hakas because you can't increase infinity. Sounds like Haka's backstory may have a little more "because... comics" in it than they intended. ;)

 

Well, it would also take an Infinite amount of time to accomplish, and Haka is confirmed as growing in strength over time. But then, there would be more than two so we;re back to "because the story demands it" but it is also possible that the Destruction of Oblivaeon caused the process to fritz out.

 

IT's also possible that you hit a point of diminishing returns. You've got the strength of 10 billion men in your arms, does doubling that effectively do anything in terms of recognizable effects?

 

But yeah, there is a point where logic and math breaksdown in favor of the story, and I'm cool with that

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Math stuff: first, Christopher and Adam suggested that there were "hundreds or thousands" of Hakas involved in this, not infinitely many, which suggests that they either have a shaky grasp on multiverse theory or are choosing not to implement it literally.

Otherwise, diminishing returns and the limit theorem can provide an answer. For instance, absorbing one other Haka might make him twice as strong, but absorbing two make him only 250% as strong, and three make him 275% as strong, then infinitely many would make him only 300% as strong as normal.


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My unsolicited take is:
 
First, we need to establish the concept that time doesn't "line up" across all realities in the same way. C&A mentioned this in the episode, but it's been missing from the discussion thus far.  Say I have Nightmist open up a portal to several realities, all at the same moment by my clock. One might open on a reality in 1726. Another might open on a reality in the year 3000. Still another might open during the ice age. I think, if I guess correctly, that if Nightmist closes those three portals, waits ten minutes by my clock, and then opens the same portals to the same realities, you get a portal to 1726 + 10 mins, one to 3000 + 10 mins, and one to ice age + 10 mins. Time progresses at the same rate in each reality, but their starting points aren't the same. Fundamentally, this is how characters accomplish time travel: they don't jump "back" or "forward" in the same reality, but instead they jump "across" to a different reality that is in the time they want.
 
An immediate point that follows is that not every reality has a Haka. Why? Because in some, it's the year 1086, and Aata hasn't been born yet.
 
At some point, the mysterious I'm-totally-on-board-with-the-Maria-Helena-theory entity becomes aware of OblivAeon, decides that they need Haka around, and Does the Thing that binds Aata (in the Core Game timeline) and Arataki (in some obscure other timeline) together. They become immortal, and start to absorb power from other Hakas (who I won't refer to by name) in other realities. This happens at the time in the Core Game timeline when Aata wakes up to find his Ta Moko gone. Either that was the time where the Core Game timeline was when La Entitydora fought OblivAeon - since the timelines don't all line up - or La Capentity was able to go back into the Core Game timeline to that point because she's one of the only characters with that capability.
 
Hakas begin to absorb other Hakas. My guess for the mechanism is that when Hakas die, their power goes into other realities. This explains why Aata and Arataki gain power slowly (and constantly) over time: because the timelines don't all line up, different other-universe Hakas die at different times as seen from the Core Game timeline. Each time one dies, from natural or other causes, Aata and/or Arataki gain power. With so many alternate Hakas to absorb, this appears to be a constant, steady gain in power.
 
Eventually, the OblivAeon fight happens in the Core Game timeline. NightMist opens the gates, and Aata goes off into other realities looking for heroes to recruit into that fight. One of those heroes happens to be Arataki, who comes into the Core Game timeline and fights OblivAeon. When, eventually, the heroes defeat OblivAeon, the mistgates close, (1) trapping Arataki in the Core Game reality which now becomes the RPG timeline, and (2) trapping Aata in the reality he happened to be searching for allies at that moment, which happens to be a very similar reality to the Core Game one and now becomes the Tactics timeline.
 
X-TREME Prime Wardens Haka isn't a guy we really need to worry about - awesome as he is, the TIMEVTIME cover actually includes both the X-TREME Prime Wardens' entrance into the Core Game timeline and their exit. They pop out of the portal into some other reality, to go be awesome, probably. Or maybe radical. To the max.
 
However, the X-TREME Prime Wardens do have a useful purpose here: they rule out the idea that (Core Game) Aata and Arataki are the only Hakas to absorb other Hakas. Because the cover says that the X-TREME Prime Wardens are "alternate reality versions of the Prime Wardens," and X-TREME Prime Wardens Haka is clearly able to fight as a member of the team. So various Hakas have been absorbing power from other realities' Hakas across all the timelines of the multiverse.
 
In this model, Eternal Haka is just another of those Hakas absorbing power. However, he seems to have been doing so for longer than any of the other Hakas - including Aata and Arataki, which doesn't make sense if The Thing happened at the same time (as seen from the Core Game timeline) in all realities. One possibility, though, is that Eternal Haka is the very same person as Core Game Aata, and the Final Wasteland is the end result of either the Core Game timeline (pre-OblivAeon) or the Tactics Timeline (post-OblivAeon). The Final Wasteland gets weird because Chrono-Ranger, the only other character able to travel back through the same timeline, averts the Wasteland from happening and erases Eternal Haka from existence, Marty-McFly-style. This is the point where my understanding gets most shaky and I don't think things quite line up.

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Thanks for articulating that Trajector! I've been thinking about time in the multiverse that way for a while now but haven't been able to put it into words. The central reference point for all timelines is OblivAeon since NightMist linked realities at that point. I like to call it OblivAeon Standard Time.

The 2 main questions I think are key to making sense of all this are:
1. Does time move at the same rate in all realities and if not, does it move at a constant rate in each reality relative to other realities? I think it's safe to assume that time moves in the same direction in all realities (since time travel would be easy otherwise).
2. Can Maria Helena travel between realities or only in time within a given reality? The former seems likely given the art on ¿Quando Ahora? But that begs the question of why the heroes seem to keep encountering the same La Capitan rather than alternate versions? E.g. why haven't the heroes encountered La Clamodora from the animalverse? We know from Choquito that La Comodora has been to the Final Wasteland so the answer to this question could clear up whether that Eternal Haka is the main timeline Haka.

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Dandolo wrote:

. . . We know from Choquito that La Comodora has been to the Final Wasteland so the answer to this question could clear up whether that Eternal Haka is the main timeline Haka.

Does it Dadolo, does it.  With ¿Quando? ¡Ahora! the possiblity of dimention hopping is there, so the final wasteland can still be in another reality. And who says we havn't, ¿Donde? ¡Aqui! has 2 comodora, the flip side of La Capitan has er with scales for skin. Until her powers are "Expalined" anything is possible. I just want to know if she is paradox proof. And if she meet up with the Chronoist (I forgot this question, how may are you alowed to ask?)

I am excited for her show.

 

 


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If the answer is she can only travel in time, that would help clear the Final Wasteland question up.... If she can also move between realities, then no.

Should be a fun episode and an illuminating one.

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Trajector wrote:

When, eventually, the heroes defeat OblivAeon, the mistgates close, (1) trapping Arataki in the Core Game reality which now becomes the RPG timeline, and (2) trapping Aata in the reality he happened to be searching for allies at that moment, which happens to be a very similar reality to the Core Game one and now becomes the Tactics timeline.

#2 sounds wrong to me. The way the Tactics and RPG timelines are created, from what I gather from the podcast, is that both are created from the Core Game reality at the moment Chronoranger is killed along with Rook City. Aata is in a completely unrelated reality, and at some point in the Tactics timeline, somehow reality hopping is made available again and he comes back.

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corran109 wrote:

#2 sounds wrong to me. The way the Tactics and RPG timelines are created, from what I gather from the podcast, is that both are created from the Core Game reality at the moment Chronoranger is killed along with Rook City. Aata is in a completely unrelated reality, and at some point in the Tactics timeline, somehow reality hopping is made available again and he comes back.

Trajector has it right, actually, Haka was reality-hopping the entire time OblivAeon was being fought, and happened to end up in the Tactics timeline and was still there right as OblivAeon was defeated and the mist gates collapsed as a result.


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Jeysie wrote:

Trajector has it right, actually, Haka was reality-hopping the entire time OblivAeon was being fought, and happened to end up in the Tactics timeline and was still there right as OblivAeon was defeated and the mist gates collapsed as a result.

My main point of contention is his referring to the Tactics timeline is a separate reality that's similar to the Core Game timeline, where the way it's described, Tactics and RPG are both from the Core Game timeline.

Also in the Haka episode, Christopher specificalliy says "In the Sentinel Tactics timeline, there is no Haka in that world." He goes on to say Aata "eventually appears in the timeline, sort of, in the Prime War."

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