Giving up on Sentinel Tactics

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jtspencer05
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Giving up on Sentinel Tactics

Warning: The following paragraphs are a rant over the state of the Sentinel Tactics game. If you don’t like negativity, then I would suggest that you not read any further.

I’ve spent the last few years checking the forums, looking for updates on the state of Sentinel Tactics.  Most of those searches ended with no new information being available and the few times that updates were shared, the news was universally disappointing. 

To be clear, I expect delays of 3-6 months when dealing with board game releases. I’m not at all surprised by delays of 12-18 months. I consider those situations to be within normal practices for the board gaming industry. But we are no longer within anything approaching an understandable grace period when it comes to the Sentinel Tactics expansion(s). We are nearly 3.5 years past the initial announcement and there isn’t even the barest indication the game is close to being finished with playtesting/development, much less ready to go to the printer. For frame of reference, the construction on the Empire State Building (the one-time tallest building in the world) took only around 13 months to complete, and in nearly triple that timeframe GtG has been unable to decide exactly which numbers they want to (maybe) someday print onto pieces of cardboard.

To make matters worse, these extreme delays have made it unlikely that I’ll even be able to get much use out of the game if and when it ships. Multiplayer games (both video and board) are by their very nature driven by the community around them. If you don’t have enough friends interested in playing, then you’re not going to be playing the game, regardless of its quality. Try to imagine how well the SotM card game would have been received if there was a 4-5 year gap between the launch of the base game and rook city. People would have blown through all the content in the base game, moved on to other activities, and would be far less likely to return to “that old game”. Oh, I’m sure some people would still return for the new content, but you have to admit the number of players and the general
enthusiasm would be greatly diminished. Games like these are harmed by long gaps between new content, and that harm is compounded when the developer  announces (in so many words) that the game is broken and they are having to go back to the drawing board.

Unfortunately, this lack of progress isn’t limited to the ill-fated expansions. The original Kickstarter campaign promises have yet to be fulfilled because we still do not have the written scenarios to go with the poster maps. The explanation we’ve received is that the game mechanics are being rebuilt via the future expansions and that these promised scenarios are being held back to incorporate the fruit of these labors. Assuming all of that to be truthful, there are two  possible situations as I see it:
EITHER…
1) The work on these scenarios was complete or very nearly complete in late 2015, in which case the KS backers could (should!) be provided with the promised download of these scenarios (even in a rough draft version) at minimal cost, with the option for GtG to replace them with improved versions in the future. Having even unpolished or temporary scenarios would be of value to the backers, because the maps themselves are virtually useless without them. None of
the maps have any differences in elevation, leading to severe balance issues among characters with and without mobility if you were to use the maps for skirmishes (on top of the fact that they are too asymmetrical for that purpose). Without any scenarios and being impractical for skirmishes, these map posters amount to small and expensive tablecloths.
OR…
2) The work on these scenarios was not very far along prior to their being abandoned. This would mean that the maps themselves were developed, printed and released to backers with little thought put into the scenarios they would be used for, which calls into serious question the quality we could expect from such scenarios should they ever be completed. It also undermines the notion that GtG was making a good faith effort to honor the goals of the original KS as these
scenarios were expected long before the issues that led to scrapping Battle for Broken City came up.

No matter which situation is true, the fact is that of all the projects I've Kickstarted, I can count only Oblivaeon and Flame of Freedom among those who are well past due and still haven't been totally fulfilled.  Considering that the hold-up on Sentinel Tactics amounts to the lack of a text file on the internet, I find this particularly damning.  There's no excuse for not having resolved this.

And finally, the way all of this mess has been handled just feels…dishonest. As we were nearing the original promised date for Battle for Broken City, GtG was heavily invested in cultivating a competitive tournament scene for Sentinel Tactics. By their own admission, this was a business move that proved costly when it failed to yield positive results. The impression I got from their statements was that the company was in at least some measure of financial trouble as they struggled with how they could fix a broken game they had invested so much into. Over a year went by before they announced that they were cancelling the original expansion in lieu of the new Prime War project. One which (surprise, surprise) they had already spent enough time on to develop not only a concept but also art assets and enough material to make it presentable for new pre-orders. This means that they spent a non-trivial amount of time holding on to pre-order money with absolutely no intention of proceeding with the original project. It gives the impression that they were hiding the information on the game’s status to avoid having to pay out refunds after a financial setback and were scrambling to put a new product together to keep people on board. But hey, at least they were kind enough to automatically re-invest all that pre-order money into Prime War unless you specifically contacted them to do otherwise.

Since that initial 180 degree turning point, there have been zero additional details revealed about Prime War.
-No additional details on the characters (or even a list on who is included).
-No discussion of the considered system changes that are causing all of these delays.
-Not even any previews of art or components, which should (theoretically) be less impacted by the changes in the playtesting process.
The only feedback that has been received is the tired mantra of “We ARE working on it” and “We can’t share anything at this time”. After this long a period of time, I don’t think it’s remotely unreasonable to expect to see some evidence, however small, that progress has been made. Almost every kickstarter game I’ve backed has included semi-regular updates showing off preliminary art, components or rules as the development has progressed. The only reason to assume that GtG is incapable of doing this for Prime War is that they have no progress to show or that they are embarassed about the progress that has been made. Given the specific history of the Sentinel Tactics development effort, I’m afraid that there is very little reason to continue giving GtG the benefit of the doubt regarding where the game lies in the hierarchy of the company’s priorities. 

The really tragic part of this whole affair is that it has managed to turn me into a non-fan. I used to list Sentinel Tactics among my top 5 favorite board games before all of this happened. Checking on the forums for status gradually became less about excitement for the game and more about frustration over the money I’d invested. Eventually I reached the point I’m at today, where I don’t even want the game anymore. Even if GtG announced that Prime War was shipping tomorrow, I would still have a hard time seeing myself taking time away from other board games to play Sentinel Tactics. I’ve even grown apathetic about playing the Oblivaeon KS that will supposedly be shipping “soon”.

For all of these reasons, I am requesting that my pre-order be refunded. GtG, please let me know whom at your offices I can contact to get this process started. I will also be sending a complaint through Kickstarter over the map scenarios that remain unfulfilled from the original campaign and the fact that GtG doesn’t have even the vaguest timeline for when such a fulfillment may occur (more than 3 years after the estimated kickstarter delivery date). I would encourage anyone else who feels similarly to do the same.

I wish the best to those of you who still love the game and want to hang on to it, but for my part I’ve reached the point that further involvement is just not fun anymore.


Edited by: jtspencer05 on May 30 2018 - 9:00pm
fenianb
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I can't say anything more than I put in my open letter I posted in February other than to say I can commiserate with your frustration.

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jtspencer05 wrote:

For all of these reasons, I am requesting that my pre-order be refunded. GtG, please let me know whom at your offices I can contact to get this process started. 

Sorry to hear, but definitely understand. I'm not a GTG person, but I believe Paul (paul@greaterthangames.com) has been taking these requests. You'll want to get in touch with him. 


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Yeah, I am a big fan of the lore and the games that >G creates. I cannot understand why information has been so riduculously sparse on this project. There kickstarters I guess force them to post updates to their backers. This being one of their first pre-orders in order to bypass KS taking a cut seems to have resulted in complete silence along with no real place for discussion outside posts in this forum. Also, by not being a KS, we have no idea how well funded this project is. I am starting to feel like the entire thing is going to become a Duke Nukem Forever scenario...

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Wrath of the Cosmos was the first non KS for them to run directly through preorders.   This was the second one.    As to updates I think it’s just a matter of nothing much to say.   Granted I think more updates are deserved for the project and easily the worst communication for any project despite obvious pleas for such at various times.  


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Trajector
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In the latest Editor's Note, Christopher and Adam teased a bit about "prime aspects," something to do with Prime War that they will be telling us about "soon." So I guess we'll be finding out something...

fenianb
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I have neural issues concentrating for podcasts and videos, so generally miss out on that info. Maybe there'll be something in the State of GTG this month.

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We're planning to have a detailed update about the status of Prime War before Gen Con.


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morph147
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Paul wrote:

We're planning to have a detailed update about the status of Prime War before Gen Con.

yay!!!!!!


My wife thinks Sentinels is ruining our marriage. I think she doesnt know what shes talking about because she wont sit down to play it

godzilla999666
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I understand your frustrations.  In 3 years, i had to research information since GTG believes that if they don't mention it, it is better then they are not bringing people to mind, I went from playing the card game monthly and trying to get friends into this to just waiting until Oblivean delivers to sell a whole collection and tactic to finally deliver and then sell it off as a full collection.  The long delay and little word, and the multiple project pushed in front of this has turned me off the company.  I no longer recommend this company products.  It appears they put more work in creating a fake time line for fake comics for thier podcast than in this project.  I bet the major update is telling us 2019 we might see some sort of product but it will not be what we ordered or even what our orders haven been changed to.  That is one part that stings, GTG did not even have the guts to email those that have pre-ordered and tell them about it, they made the customer research what was happening, Another believer of if we don't mention or bring it to people attention, the less we have to deal with angry customers.  I see a lot of kickstarters use this tactic, rarely does it make for a good customer service.

fenianb
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FWIW GTG did notify us by mail regarding the status of Broken City and For Profit as well as the change to Prime War. I double-checked and still have the emails. They've given little other information since August 2016 other than as a carried-over line item in the work-in-progress in State of GTG posts but they did not just leave us to research for ourselves.

godzilla999666
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I remember the information being stuck in a general newsletter that they send to anyone who signed up for it, not an email to jus the pre-order customers but i could be wrong.

fenianb
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godzilla999666 wrote:

I remember the information being stuck in a general newsletter that they send to anyone who signed up for it, not an email to jus the pre-order customers but i could be wrong.

You are correct in that it was part of the newsletter (https://greaterthangames.com/content/announcing-prime-war) No, I don't think any separate email to those who actually pre-ordered and paid was ever sent.

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If you want to get technical, most of us learned about the cancellation and switch to Prime War via the forum. The announcement was made at GenCon before any of the people who pre-ordered were notified. It was an interesting time where 1 or 2 forumites at GenCon got bombarded with questions because it had been a year of silence and then a forum post trying to sum up what they answered at a Q&A at GenCon.

The formal announcement was server days later via a newsletter email.

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This is why I describe the pre-order and refund-on-request offer as a long term loan amortized over the lifetime of their customers' frustration. I'm willing to wait and see what GTG announces pre-GenCon, but I'm a retiree who can afford to leave my money in the pot to have a seat at the table.

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XtremeGuardian wrote:

If you want to get technical, most of us learned about the cancellation and switch to Prime War via the forum. The announcement was made at GenCon before any of the people who pre-ordered were notified. It was an interesting time where 1 or 2 forumites at GenCon got bombarded with questions because it had been a year of silence and then a forum post trying to sum up what they answered at a Q&A at GenCon.The formal announcement was server days later via a newsletter email.

yes this pissed me off to no end and hopefully they learned for future gen cons including the one coming up, that if they are about to make an announcement like this  they better have a press release or something ready for the forums because people are going to lose it and want official word on it. It took 2-3 days after someone posted the gen con thing about prime war to get news of what is going on which I was just freaking out for details.


My wife thinks Sentinels is ruining our marriage. I think she doesnt know what shes talking about because she wont sit down to play it

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fenianb wrote:

a long term loan amortized over the lifetime of their customers' frustration.

As someone in Finance, this made me giggle a little too much.

fenianb
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Blackfang108 wrote:

 

fenianb wrote:
a long term loan amortized over the lifetime of their customers' frustration.

 

As someone in Finance, this made me giggle a little too much.

I wish I could do the same.

morph147
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Paul wrote:

We're planning to have a detailed update about the status of Prime War before Gen Con.

well today is the last state of gtg before gen con. Wonder if today will be the day?


My wife thinks Sentinels is ruining our marriage. I think she doesnt know what shes talking about because she wont sit down to play it

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Some mention in today’s Letters Page episode at the beginning 


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Trajector
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Yup! There will be a "big announcement" on Thursday the 5th.

But don't take my word for it. Listen to the first few minutes of the Dark Watch 1-6 episode of The Letters Page to hear Christopher and Adam get excited about Prime War.

fenianb
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*fingers crossed* I'm trying to keep my expectations reasonable and in check, but I didn't really expect any major info until just before Gen Con itself.

fenianb
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I listened to the first few minutes of The Letters Page. I'm not familiar with the process of how the subjects covered work but it appears the Patreon supporters submit and vote on the subject matter of future podcasts? That actually doesn't seem unreasonable to me, taking feedback from the subscribing fans. But they ask if people are excited for Prime Wars, and I have to wonder why anyone would be? GTG has done nothing to lay groundwork to generate excitement, repeatedly going out of the way to avoid giving any information. I hope Thursday's announcement is significant enough to prime (no pun intended) the pump for the enthusiasm they desire.

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fenianb wrote:

I listened to the first few minutes of The Letters Page. I'm not familiar with the process of how the subjects covered work but it appears the Patreon supporters submit and vote on the subject matter of future podcasts?

This is a relatively recent development, but is how things are proceeding at present. Historically, they just picked a Hero/villain/etc. and talked about it but they’re about out of non-OblivAeon stuff and so have opened things up to the fans to make suggestions. The podcast is primarily about the story underlying the games, and while there’s been little in the way given to us about the Prime War game, we’ve gotten a bunch of snippets of info about the setting over the course of the podcast as they discuss little bits of the story of the two post-SotM product timelines at the end of most episodes. Stuff like briefly saying what each character is up to in that timeline. We’ve got summaries of the episodes in the official wiki.

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I kind of don't want them to talk about Prime War yet, as a setting.  Sell me on the mechanics first, before getting me invested in the lore.  Although the lore is already so depressing I kind of hope it's all bad so I can just avoid it.


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fenianb
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The mechanics are what I'm interested in as well. The universe, or in this case Multiverse, can help, but can't shine a bad system.

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Very disappointed in GtG over the recent announcements.

 

I think it was good for GtG to (finally) reveal information on the state of the project.  I just wish that the information they revealed hadn’t been another blatant bait-and-switch on this beleaguered product.

 

To be clear, I do not take particular umbrage with any of the following:

1.      The fact that the project has been delayed

2.      That the information in the latest update is underwhelming/incomplete

3.      The fact that the Sentinel Tactics system was not working out and was scrapped

DO take issue with these problems:

1.      The lack of transparency on the status of the project given the long delays and many changes

2.      The way in which the transition from “Battle for Broken City” to “Prime War” was handled, with GtG trying desperately to avoid people pulling their money out by delaying the cancellation of the former until they could pull together materials to sell them on the latter.

3.      A second bait-and-switch when they revealed, just now, that Prime War will NOT be an expansion to Sentinel Tactics and that the original game is effectively being discontinued.  This is clearly something they have been aware of for a while and have left any backers, some of whom may have been enjoying the current game and just wanted additional content for it, intentionally in the dark.  We have known for a while that Prime War would be overhauling the game to an extent, but the assumption that Prime War was an expansion implied that the core of the gameplay would at least be similar to Flame of Freedom.  According to GtG, the only similarities we can expect will be hex-based maps and miniatures.  This is a very different product than what people signed on for.

4.      The map scenarios being grudgingly released as an afterthought, and only after they revealed that the “shiny new scenarios” they’ve been working on will not be compatible with the original game.  Why couldn’t the people who bought and paid for these scenarios have them before now?  It seems as if GtG withheld these for no other reason than to hide the fact that they were abandoning Sentinel Tactics.  The particular language used, that “some people have expressed an interest” in the original scenarios, just served to twist the knife.  When you offer a product for purchase (even through a kickstarter), it feels incredibly disingenuous to talk about providing that product to the paying customers as if you were indulging an unusual request.

Shame on you Greater than Games.  

Shame.

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I’m not sure how you got to point 3 since they’ve said since the intial Prime War announcement said they were going back to the drawing board.   While they may not have expected drastic changes it was certainly a possibility even then.  


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I don't see how you got #2 either.  Broken City/For Profit was cancelled a very, very long time ago, and refunds were offered for anyone who cared to claim one.  Granted, they could have been more proactive about contacting pre-orderers directly instead of letting them find out through the grapevine, but I don't see this "desparation."  They could have been a lot more conniving about drawing things out if that had been their intention.


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jtspencer05 wrote:

It seems as if GtG withheld these for no other reason than to hide the fact that they were abandoning Sentinel Tactics.

I'd be surprised if they were purposely trying to hide it.  A more likely explanation, IMO, is that they're just disorganized and garbage at communication at GtG.  You can be bad at a thing without having bad intent.


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The communication regarding the change of Battle For Broken City and For Profit to Prime War and Rise Of The Ennead seemed clear to me that there was going to be a rules revamp of some sort. The longer it went on without any real info the greater the change  I expected. So I don't see this recent communication as a revelation at this point.

But to me it has also felt that Sentinel Tactics/Prime War has been a low priority for GTG compared to Oblivaeon, the RPG, and their other more recent games. Likewise it seems to me that communicating to the pre-order customers the status of Prime War has also been a low priority. A regular reiteration of 'We're working on it, you can have a refund anytime' in response to requests for status over the years is IMO poor customer service. There should be some sort of middle ground between 'Wait and shut up' and 'Take your money and shut up'. Likewise no response to people who have asked for the status of the scenarios they purchased in the original Kickstarter is poor customer service. That the scenarios were distributed upon being asked about compensation for failure to deliver on the original Kickstarter add-ons is suspicious in timing at best. 

I expect this will go back and forth with no minds changed and no resolution. For myself I won't feel any apology GTG can give at this point will be meant or meaningful. I think GTG puts out good products eventually. But for future purchases I'll likely wait until they've actually produced the items. I feel they're not trustworthy.

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fenianb wrote:

I expect this will go back and forth with no minds changed and no resolution. For myself I won't feel any apology GTG can give at this point will be meant or meaningful. I think GTG puts out good products eventually. But for future purchases I'll likely wait until they've actually produced the items. I feel they're not trustworthy.

This ^

Whether through intentional deceit or unintentional neglect, GtG hasn't shown a great deal of consideration or respect to its customers during the course of all this. 

That would be all well and good.  They are their own company and don't owe us anything, EXCEPT they asked for pre-orders and took money.  If they had issued automatic refunds or at least sent out something equivalent to a backerkit to all those who had pre-ordered as many of these changes were happening, then I would be much more likely to credit them with good faith efforts in a bad situation.  As it stands now, it is entirely possible that someone who pre-ordered the expansion for Tactics has no idea that they will be receiving an entirely different product at some point in the indefinite future.

As I've stated previously, I'm pretty much done with GtG as a company over all this.  I've gotten my refund and they belated fulfilled the map scenarios, so they can finally go back to owing me nothing.

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This project has been a disappointment. Compared to their othe Kickstarted projects, this one has suffered not just delays but a lot of redesigns to the point where fans of the original have all but fallen off. I love GTG and hope this game is good, but I do find my interest waning...especially after 3+ years with mini9mal communication. Even the most recent update says the game is still a year or so out, is unable to show us artwork/scenarios/components, and has basically said the old game is obsolete. It also doesn't help that C&A are basically viewing this as a dying branch of the multiverse while the RPG will continue on with a more hero focused stroy line.

I am starting to feel the same way with the RPG and its several Kickstarter delays. Hopefully all the content is good and they are worth the wait.

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fenianb wrote:

I think GTG puts out good products eventually. But for future purchases I'll likely wait until they've actually produced the items. I feel they're not trustworthy.

Do they really put out good products eventually?  After SotM, they put out Galactic Strike Force, then Tactics, then a couple of little time waster games.  It wasn't until Spirit Island came around that they actually had a second hit, and that was made by someone else.  People seem to be excited about the RPG, so maybe that'll be good, but the rollout of OblivAeon was a hot mess.  I think healthy skepticism is the right position to take.  GtG feels like a great game company to root for, but I'm not so sure they make better games than anyone else.


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Darren Watts is working on the RPG, and boy howdy he knows the genre and the industry. OTOH I'm a Hero System gamer from way back and am not inclined to budge from it. The background material may be nice but I'm not shopping for a new rpg system. As for GTG products overall, I was including all of the company including the other divisions. I'll take things on a game by game basis once Prime War is delivered. YMMV. 

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I've been wondering about the good sense of even mentioning the "Tactics Timeline" on the Letters Page podcast all this time. It feels fairly certain that Tactics is pretty much dead, until they decide to start hyping Prime War or whatever's coming next. 

That having been said, I'd hesitate to accuse them of shenanigans on Broken City, etc. I'm involved in the Kickstarter for Super Dungeon Legends, and I truly believe there has been bad-faith activity, lies, lack of transparency, and genuine contempt for the backers who gave them well over a million dollars to produce a product. 

I didn't back Broken City, and I haven't been eyeballing the news constantly, but even I knew they were closing down Tactics in favor of some nebulous future Prime War thing. That's a level of transparency I'd have loved to have on SDL.

I just wish they weren't talking about a "Tactics Timeline" as if there was an actual living game that exists using that setting. 

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Spiff wrote:
It wasn't until Spirit Island came around that they actually had a second hit, and that was made by someone else.
It isn't correct to say that Spirit Island was made by someone else. The designer is not an employee of GtG, but that's typical for the industry. GtG was closely involved in the final development of the game, and also commissioned all the artwork and produced the components. These are a significant part of the success of the game. (I know you saw Eric's playtesting designs for the cards, for instance--the final components look much better, and not just because they have art.)

Spiff wrote:
GtG feels like a great game company to root for, but I'm not so sure they make better games than anyone else.
There are definitely a lot of great companies making great games.

 

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The news that someone else has been designing the game for the past year was the final straw.  I just sent off for a refund, hopefully i get it and i can pawn the orginal game off on someone that does not knw how much of it is now worthless.

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godzilla999666 wrote:

i can pawn the orginal game off on someone that does not knw how much of it is now worthless.

Your choice to sell the game but to sell it without the explaining the current standing of the game seems wrong.  


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Any different than Greater than games doing the same thing? Look at the tactics products on the webstore here, no mention of the state of the game.  If someone did not research the game, they could buy the tournemant pack right now just to get promo that are worthless.  I am just following greater than games example on that point.

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godzilla999666 wrote:

Any different than Greater than games doing the same thing?

zing.


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godzilla999666 wrote:

Look at the tactics products on the webstore here, no mention of the state of the game.

You mean its status as a 100% fully-contained game that can still be played as-is just fine, and will have an upgrade kit available if someone also cares about buying into its sequel?


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godzilla999666 wrote:

Any different than Greater than games doing the same thing? Look at the tactics products on the webstore here, no mention of the state of the game.  If someone did not research the game, they could buy the tournemant pack right now just to get promo that are worthless.  I am just following greater than games example on that point.

First, you are the individual seller not GtG in this case.  Second, you have complained about transparency but want to sell this without being upfront on information you know.  In regards to their store page they should make some reference to Prime War but that’s on them it doesn’t make it any better for you not to mention it to someone you’re selling to.  In either case I would hope the buyer knows what is happening with the game before completing their purchase.  


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If I didn't already have Flame of Freedom, I'd still be seriously tempted by the tourney pack.  The minis alone sell for more than that, and they're pretty cool.  If they still have it available when Prime War comes out, and it looks good, I may still get it.


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godzilla999666 wrote:

The news that someone else has been designing the game for the past year was the final straw.  I just sent off for a refund, hopefully i get it and i can pawn the orginal game off on someone that does not knw how much of it is now worthless.

Tell ya what, I'll buy it off ya for $5 + shipping.

Considering how worthless you keep saying it is, that's a pretty valuable return on your estimation.

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godzilla999666 wrote:

The news that someone else has been designing the game for the past year was the final straw.  I just sent off for a refund, hopefully i get it and i can pawn the orginal game off on someone that does not knw how much of it is now worthless.

I'm pretty sure Flame of Freedom was developed by an external company.


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Jeysie wrote:

godzilla999666 wrote:

Look at the tactics products on the webstore here, no mention of the state of the game.

You mean its status as a 100% fully-contained game that can still be played as-is just fine, and will have an upgrade kit available if someone also cares about buying into its sequel?


I don't get it either. One self-contained excellent game is worth more than unending expansions in my view.

If you like playing Tactics and you play Tactics, it's worth having Tactics. If you only bought Tactics for the promise of buying more Tactics stuff in the future....eh, I don't understand.

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Comrade Bubbles wrote:

 

godzilla999666 wrote:
The news that someone else has been designing the game for the past year was the final straw.  I just sent off for a refund, hopefully i get it and i can pawn the orginal game off on someone that does not knw how much of it is now worthless.

 

I'm pretty sure Flame of Freedom was developed by an external company.

the game system and engine were all developed outside of GtG you’re right! 

There are too many bankrupt arguments in this thread. Hurts my head to read honestly. It comes off as complaining for complainings sake and nothing more. Iv done it before in my younger days so I know it when I see it. 

Tactics is a self contained game. You either like the system or don’t. Play it or don’t. Get your refund or don’t. But let’s not pad what should be a very simple opinion with nonsense and butterfluff about suddenly “caring” about what individual built the game engine or that a game without future expansions is dead and worthless. 

Like, honestly, there are numerous legit reasons to not like Tactics or the way it was handled, all of which are pretty well documented here on these very forums. What is the point of stretching the boundaries of both logic and reason in a poor attempt to add more to that list? 

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Trajector wrote:

 

Jeysie wrote:
godzilla999666 wrote:

 

Look at the tactics products on the webstore here, no mention of the state of the game.

You mean its status as a 100% fully-contained game that can still be played as-is just fine, and will have an upgrade kit available if someone also cares about buying into its sequel?

I don't get it either. One self-contained excellent game is worth more than unending expansions in my view.

If you like playing Tactics and you play Tactics, it's worth having Tactics. If you only bought Tactics for the promise of buying more Tactics stuff in the future....eh, I don't understand.

Not sure about godzilla's reasoning, and not trying to say what it is, but I sort of get the idea. If a game was made to be a tournament game, and you like the competitive nature of it, you need the game to be going and kept alive to get a player base, and have those tournaments. Furthermore, new content can help keep things fresh, even if it is just changes the meta up periodically.


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Pydro wrote:
Trajector wrote:
 Jeysie wrote:
godzilla999666 wrote: 
Look at the tactics products on the webstore here, no mention of the state of the game.

You mean its status as a 100% fully-contained game that can still be played as-is just fine, and will have an upgrade kit available if someone also cares about buying into its sequel?

I don't get it either. One self-contained excellent game is worth more than unending expansions in my view.If you like playing Tactics and you play Tactics, it's worth having Tactics. If you only bought Tactics for the promise of buying more Tactics stuff in the future....eh, I don't understand.

Not sure about godzilla's reasoning, and not trying to say what it is, but I sort of get the idea. If a game was made to be a tournament game, and you like the competitive nature of it, you need the game to be going and kept alive to get a player base, and have those tournaments. Furthermore, new content can help keep things fresh, even if it is just changes the meta up periodically.

I can't speak for Trajector, but Foote encapsuled a lot of what I meant behind my admittedly slightly snarky comment.

I can understand being disappointed at no more expansions for Tactics if Prime War isn't your thing. But to say GTG should pull the game or they're being dishonest... I mean, no? They're selling a game that can still be 100% played as-is with existing materials. The miniatures are cute depictions of Sentinels characters that make nice decorations (literally the reason I own them) and can have use in Prime War and in playing the RPG in addition to their usual Tactics uses. I'm willing to guess that GTG might not reprint the game or minis again if/when their current stock runs out, but they're not being dishonest in continuing to sell what stock they have now.

That's like saying they should stop selling SotM now that OblivAeon is out, or that every other board game in existence that isn't getting expansions or never had any in the first place should be instantly pulled from sale. It's just silly, IMHO.

And when it comes to the tourney play: The official tournament play for Tactics seemed to always be limited to the big gaming cons like GenCon & PAX from what I know of it, so I would think the vast majority of people who bought Tactics were never going to get to play in a tournament anyway, versus just games with their friends or their fellow FLGS customers at most.

Combined with the complaints about Lore Forge being the ones to develop Prime War that others have addressed, I share Foote's annoyance with people who seem to be complaining just for the sake of complaining. Godzilla999666 is particularly egregious on this call, since I honestly cannot think of a single time they've posted anything but complaints in the entire two years I've been in the fandom. Their statement that they were apparently after at least two years of complaints finally getting a refund and moving on, just filled me with a profound feeling of relief.


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I was only addressing that one point that multiple people mentioned. Just pointing out that I actually see a side there.


Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-Robert E. Howard, "The Tower of the Elephant"