DC's All New 52 (spoilers maybe)

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TheJayMann
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Tamar wrote:
22. Catwoman: 1 white man

Wait... what!?


Do good, I? No! Evil anon I deliver, I maim nine more hero men in Miami, sanitary sword a-tuck, carol I. Lo! Rack, cut a drowsy rat in Aswan. I gas nine more hero men in Saginaw. Reviled I, Nona, live on. I do... o, God!

WriterRyan
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TheJayMann wrote:

Tamar wrote:
22. Catwoman: 1 white man

Wait... what!?

Spoilers!


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Tamar
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WriterRyan wrote:
However, I think the issue I have with this type of thing is that, perhaps, instead of altering iconic characters to make the pool more inclusive, why don't they just, you know, actually come up with some new characters? This would solve two things:[ type=decimal]

  • Not triggering nerd rage from folks who don't appreciate having characters they very much like or even identify with themselves altered in such an extreme way.
  • Actually exercising some sodding creativity so that the comic book market doesn't go stale. Enough with shocking and/or sexed up reboots: come up with some new characters with new stories to tell who happen to be non-white or non-male without being caricatures.
  • [/]

    I agree that they should try to come up with new heroes, or even just update the some of the ones they have to be less blatantly racist.  I haven't read the most recent stuff, but I thought they did a decent job of that with Dani Moonstar when she was running young X-Men or something (Too many X-titles to keep track of!).  She was still Cheyenne, but not so much just a generic native person stereotype.  Ditto Cloak of Cloak and Dagger.  I really loved their cameos in Runaways (Oh Runaways, I <3 you so much), so I hunted down some of the originals, and he feels much less stereotyped than he used to be.
    It IS pretty difficult to get a following for a brand new character, but I think part of that is that the companies largely don't want to risk "wasting" their top writers on a title that may not do well.

    (I confess to SO much nerdrage at making Barbara Gordon not Oracle anymore, in all fairness.)


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    Tamar
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    TheJayMann wrote:

    Tamar wrote:
    22. Catwoman: 1 white man

    Wait... what!?

    HA!  Fail!  I would be all for that though, to be honest.  Catwoman is cool and all, but she's been enough different people that that change wouldn't bother me.  *goes to edit post for correctitude*


    I am the Bad Wolf. I create myself.
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    The Conscience
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    Adam wrote:
    When you buy a book solely because the main character is black, you're making a decision based solely on skin color. That's not progressive, that's racist.

    When you buy a book solely because the main character is female, you're making a decision based solely on gender. That's not progressive, that's sexist.

    I don't care about connotation or "loaded terms," buy something because it's good, not because it features a minority. You're not teaching anyone anything except that they can write a terrible book and have terrible art and it will still sell because the main character's black (I'm looking at you, Black Panther for at least a 6-year run and Howard Chaykin's Blade.) or a woman.

    I buy a book because I like the character and generally don't care what "nationality/ethnicity" or what gender the character is. Although some of the best books I have read in recent years have female leads but then again I read what I think will be good and what my local comic shop may recommend. I feel that most people do the same thing as I do and don't care that the characters are of a specific ethnicity or gender.

    I do know of some people that choose their books based on the writer or artist or the combination of the two. While a good writer and/or artist will certainly make or break a book I tend to look at the bigger picture.


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    SlenderTroll
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    So. I read Animal Man 1 and 2 this weekend. My thoughts are summed up as follows: WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN. I'm not sure why so many people loved this book so much. It's SO BIZARRE. After the first read-through, I decided I wasn't going to get any more issues, but now I feel like I need to know where they're going with this.

    I was kinda' unimpressed with Swamp Thing, though that might just be in comparison to the hype it was getting.

    Also, do we think that Seethe and the Hunters Three might be related somehow? The last panel of Animal Man #2 has some very suspicious-looking flies on the faces of the zookeepers, and in that interview in the back of some of the comics, the writers said that the Hunters Three were agents of some new dark force lurking under the entire DCnU.

    So, my current list of titles to continue buying is as follows: Action Comics, Animal Man, Batman, and one other, on which I'm undecided.


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    meakatommy
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    I think people liked Animal Man because it was weird and bizarre. My money is on them being related, probably won't know till the first cross book story arc happens. Those are some good titles to keep buying. For your last one, have you checked out DC Presents: Deadman? Or JLI?


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    SlenderTroll
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    I haven't; I was mostly trying to decide between Aquaman, Swamp Thing, or All-Star Western, which I still haven't picked up.


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    The Conscience
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    SlenderTroll wrote:
    I haven't; I was mostly trying to decide between Aquaman, Swamp Thing, or All-Star Western, which I still haven't picked up.

    Aquaman is well worth the read as well as All-Star Western,either would be worthy of your hard earned dollars IMO.


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    evandan457
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    I just read Swamp Thing over the weekend, and loved it, along with Firestorm. My girlfriend's dad also game me Frankenstein, but I'm not sure how I feel about it. I've heard the story is good, but the artwork just doesn't do it for me. I LOVE Animal Man, and even its artwork bothered me a bit at first, but Frankenstein... It's a bit too much.

    On the subject of bad ones, did anyone pick up anything really bad? I picked up Red Hood, and wow... It was awful.


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    evandan457 wrote:
    I just read Swamp Thing over the weekend, and loved it, along with Firestorm. My girlfriend's dad also game me Frankenstein, but I'm not sure how I feel about it. I've heard the story is good, but the artwork just doesn't do it for me. I LOVE Animal Man, and even its artwork bothered me a bit at first, but Frankenstein... It's a bit too much.

    On the subject of bad ones, did anyone pick up anything really bad? I picked up Red Hood, and wow... It was awful.

    I am struggling to understand Detective Comics as it is really dark and violent even more so that you would think when it comes to Batman. I am struggling with the art of Wonder Woman but its not as bad as Frankenstein and both stories are interesting if you can get past your eyes bleeding profusely as you muddle through them. I really REALLY like O.M.A.C. and Red Lanterns as well as Animal Man, Green Arrow, Men of War, and Swamp Thing.

    All in all most of the new books are worth reading but I am not sure if they are worth collecting in the end. The favorites I listed above are purchases I'll make each month but the rest I will just read through other means.


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    Tamar
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    Picked up Batgirl, Batwoman, Ultimate Spiderman and Huntress today.  I've only gotten to read Batgirl so far, but Gail is just killing it in these first couple of issues.  So good!


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    The Conscience
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    For those of you that would like to know here are the DC New 52 Comics released this week. Happy reading!

    Batgirl (a favorite)
    Batman and Robin
    Batwoman (interesting and growing on me)
    Deathstroke
    Demon Knights (a total favorite)
    Frankenstein Agent of S.H.A.D.E.
    Green Lantern
    Grifter (a favorite)
    Legion Lost
    Mister Terrific
    Resurrection Man (becoming a favorite)
    Suicide Squad
    Superboy

    A couple of mini-series were added this week to expand the new 52 Universe with My Greatest Adventure and The Shade.


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    The Conscience
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    For those of you that would like to know here are the DC New 52 Comics released this week. Happy reading!

    ALL-STAR WESTERN (Really like this one can't wait to see where they are going)
    AQUAMAN (Better than I thought it would be)
    BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT (It's Batman, nothing more needs be said)
    BLACKHAWKS (Really fun and becoming a favorite)
    THE FLASH (Always a good read)
    THE FURY OF FIRESTORM: THE NUCLEAR MEN (Really liking the changes to the origin and can't wait to see what they do with it)
    GREEN LANTERN: NEW GUARDIANS (An interesting read)
    I, VAMPIRE (Graphically its kind of weird and makes it difficult to follow whats going on, will give it a few more issues before I decide)
    JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK (A really good aspect of the Justice League)
    THE SAVAGE HAWKMAN (Always a crowd-pleaser and the relaunch of this title makes me want more)
    SUPERMAN (Intriguing but still Superman)
    TEEN TITANS (Nice change to the title and can't wait to see where they go with it)
    VOODOO (An interesting book. Definitely not the normal book you would see from them)

    Another mini-series was added this week to expand the new 52 Universe with Legion Secret Origin.


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    Tamar
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    The Conscience wrote:
    BLACKHAWKS (Really fun and becoming a favorite)
    THE FURY OF FIRESTORM: THE NUCLEAR MEN (Really liking the changes to the origin and can't wait to see what they do with it)

    I haven't been able to bring myself to care much about Blackhawks since Lady Blackhawk doesn't seem to be in evidence in any recognizable form.  I have a huge nerdgirlcrush on Zinda and want to go do drinks and dancing with her, and aside from that I have very little interest in what looks like a generic war comic.  I do love me some absurdly large guns, but without foul-mouthed, bar-fight starting, plane flying Zinda It just doesn't work for me.  HAWKAAAAA!!

    I wasn't familiar with Firestorm before this, but I'm enjoying what I've read so far and I'm interested to see where the story goes.


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    evandan457
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    I'm enjoying Firestorm too, but I think I most look forward to more of Suicide Squad. Unfortunately, I've read that in each issue, one of the members of the team will die. I really hope that won't be the case, because I really like a lot of the members of the team, notably Deadshot, Harley Quinn, King Shark, and El Diablo. Besides them, there are only a few more members of the team, so if one dies each issue, this will be a rather short series. Maybe they'll bring in new members to the team, but I like the ones we've got now. Plus, what would the DC universe be without Harley? We can't have her dying!


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    Tamar
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    evandan457 wrote:
    Plus, what would the DC universe be without Harley? We can't have her dying!

    I dunno, I think I'd be ok with this weirdo alterna-Harley dying so they can bring back the REAL Harley, who has clearly been replaced by some sort of robot that will overheat if you cover too much of the surface of its "skin" with pesky things like clothing.


    I am the Bad Wolf. I create myself.
    I take the words. I scatter them in time... and space.
    A message to lead myself here.

    SlenderTroll
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    So! I've finally narrowed down my selections to Action Comics, Animal Man, Aquaman, Batman, and Swamp Thing. I've enjoyed the first two issues of each so far, except for Aquaman, whose second issue I haven't yet picked up. ("Enjoyed" may not be quite right -- Swamp Thing and Animal Man are so weird that I want to see where they're going, but I don't know I "enjoyed" them. Batman though, now that's an enjoyable comic.)

    Tamar wrote:
    HAWKAAAAA!!

    Why is the guy in the bottom right punching himself in the head?

    Tamar wrote:
    I dunno, I think I'd be ok with this weirdo alterna-Harley dying so they can bring back the REAL Harley, who has clearly been replaced by some sort of robot that will overheat if you cover too much of the surface of its "skin" with pesky things like clothing.

    QFT.


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    TheJayMann
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    I don't think he's punching himself in the head, I think he is setting up a block.


    Do good, I? No! Evil anon I deliver, I maim nine more hero men in Miami, sanitary sword a-tuck, carol I. Lo! Rack, cut a drowsy rat in Aswan. I gas nine more hero men in Saginaw. Reviled I, Nona, live on. I do... o, God!

    The Conscience
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    I will admit that the art in most of the books is less than desirable for me but the majority of them have a good enough story to keep me coming back for more. Detective is just plain weird though. I agree that Animal Man and Swamp Thing are really weird but they are like a train wreck you can't turn away until its all over.
    I do have my top 11 must reads now after having read issue #2 of most of them and here they are in no particular order:
    Batgirl
    Demon Knights
    Grifter
    Resurrection Man
    All-Star Western
    The Fury of Firestorm
    Teen Titans
    Voodoo
    O.M.A.C.
    Men of War
    Birds of Prey

    Which titles made it to your top 10ish?


    The Myth, The Legend, The Dream. You can't escape The Conscience!

    The Conscience
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    This weeks shenanigans are:

    ACTION COMICS #3
    ANIMAL MAN #3
    BATWING #3
    DETECTIVE COMICS #3
    GREEN ARROW #3
    HAWK AND DOVE #3
    JUSTICE LEAGUE INTERNATIONAL #3
    MEN OF WAR #3
    O.M.A.C. #3
    RED LANTERNS #3
    STATIC SHOCK #3
    STORMWATCH #3
    SWAMP THING #3

    It seems that DC hasn't finalized when each book is too be released as its different every month so far. Anywhoo still intrigued by my top 11 but I am considering dropping a few off the list if they don't get to the point real soon.


    The Myth, The Legend, The Dream. You can't escape The Conscience!

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