Avengers SPOILERS!

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Matchstickman
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Avengers SPOILERS!

So I thought I'd start this thread to discuss the Avengers where we can spoil the plot, read no further unless you have seen the film or haven't seen it and don't care.


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Edited by: Matchstickman on Aug 12 2012 - 12:43pm
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I also started this thread because from what I'm reading online there was an extra scene after the credits that was not in the UK release, we got the Thantos scene (which was awesome) but not whatever else there is. Can any one confirm there was more?

When I saw it I sat there waiting for an extra scene (having not read the online buzz before going) and was looking out for a scene at the end, hoping against hope that the scene would be Coulson in 'witness protection' somewhere. I have lamented in action films where the heroes save everyone but seeing it happen to a character that has survived so many film and become a fan favourite? I am bummed out by it (disappointed he's dead, not disappointed the film did it).
The fact that he had interacted with all the characters prior to the film except Captain America and then making him a big Cap fan to give Coulson a connection to him too, nice touch and just the push they needed to go Avenging and bond together


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Are you talking about the Schwarma(sp) scene....

I've heard many left(a lot at the theater I went to) left after Thanos.  Too bad for them....

As for Coulson, it sucked, but he could have always been an LMD.  It is a super hero movie after all.

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Gnipp wrote:
Are you talking about the Schwarma(sp) scene....

I haven't been able to find it online or anything so I have no idea. Care to fill us early adopters in?

EDIT: Ahhhhh, just wasn't looking in the right news bits, Schwarma got me the hits on the news I was looking for (and the fact that they only posted their article an hour ago explains why I couldn't find it Friday evening!)


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Dammit,  I left after the Thanos scene.

I love that Joss Whedon managed to work one of his Buffy regulars into the cast.  Plus, did any catch the subtle not to Firefly/Serenity?

-CSR

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There was still something else after the Thanos scene? Well that's a pity. I thought that it was the extra scene that is usually added in so I left. Not to self, stay in theatre until the screen goes completely blank. Just got back from seeing it in 3D, and boy was it awesome.

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It was missable, so don't worry.  It was just all of the heroes sitting around a table, wordlessly decompressing after the fight as they finally ate the Shwarma that Iron Man said they should go get.  No dialogue, nothing.  Just a brief moment of characterization, which is nice, but wasn't something you had to not miss.


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Tell that to us non-USians who never got the option to not see it!

(Thanks for the analysis/context of the scene, much appreciated. I completely missed the Stark connection!)


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I absolutely loved that last scene.  Just imagine you just saved the world and are exhausted.  You've got major powerhouses just sitting around a table eating schwarmas and are speechless.  They are so wiped.  It is great!  Necessary? No.  But a great scene.  Add in the fact that I love me a tasty schwarma and the scene is even better.

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Yeah, seriously the folks remaining in our theater were all laughing at the image. I'm still not sure exactly why - something surreal about it, over-the-top. But we definitely found it entertaining.

Mileage will probably vary.  ;)


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My favorite part of that scene is how absolutely bored Captain America looks.

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Do not laugh, please, but Coulson's death literally brought me to tears. I didn't cry, but I came damn close.


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It was a little sad.  I mean he's been with us for quite a few movies.  I won't laugh at ya.

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I'm laughing just like Nelson from the Simpsons. Ha ha! I'm just kidding, it was pretty sad, especially since he didn't get his Captain America trading cards signed.

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The trading cards are what got me.  :(


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evandan55 wrote:
Do not laugh, please, but Coulson's death literally brought me to tears. I didn't cry, but I came damn close.

No laughing here. I nearly did, also - only reason I didn't was I'd been spoiled and heard he was going to die before I got there. :-\

(And yeah, Ryan, same on the trading cards.)

Unfortunately, "So that's what it does" made for mixed emotions.  ;)


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I'm just going to post this here to show my feelings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGes7FDmHAM

I am far to manly to feel sad for a fictional character,... *Grrr* *manly noises*

:'(


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I know they're making a SHIELD movie at some point in the near future, and I sincerely hope that it takes place before the Avengers movie, so that Coulson would still be alive. But on a happy note, Edgar Wright is directing the Ant Man movie. That's just going to be amazing. And I loved the Avengers so much, my girlfriend and I went and saw it twice during opening weekend.


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Clark Gregg mentioned in an interview that he and Cobie Smulders were aboard for a Nick Fury film, which leads me to believe it would be a prequel. I am looking forward to Ant Man, but it's a believe-it-when-I'm-watching-the-credits scenario, that movie's been in development with Edgar Wright "attached" for 8 years. Almost as long as Guillermo Del Toro has been rumored to be directing Dr. Strange.

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I believer I read somewhere that the actor playing Coulson had signed a multi Marvel picture deal that he has not fulfilled yet.  So between either flashbacks, a possible LMD, or even an all out SHIELD movie taking place in the past, I doubt we have seen the last of him.

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evandan55 wrote:
Do not laugh, please, but Coulson's death literally brought me to tears. I didn't cry, but I came damn close.

That scene was one of my two excessively loud outbursts during the movie.  Coulson inspired a "**** you Joss!" loud enough that my friends at the other end of our group heard it.

The other was the AMAZING Hulk flinging Loki around like a rag doll scene, but that had the whole theater in hysterics to the point that you missed Hulk's line just after. Which I hear is common in a lot of showings.  I have the HUGEST lady-***** for Loki (I even wore a Loki inspired outfit to the movie :P), but that scene was still fantastically funny.

I think that Black Widow's scene in the beginning was spot on, and I love that they showed her fantastic emotional manipulation abilities both there and in the scene with Loki (That scene. So hot!), but I wish that they'd at least given her a bigger gun at the end.  They had a good idea that they were going up against OMGWTF levels of badness.  That little gun of hers was cute, and she knocked some heads with stolen alien weaponry, but I feel like they would have supplied her with a bit more firepower.

I love how the interaction between Cap and Iron Man in the lab helps illustrate Tony's growth from Tony Stark: "genius billionaire playboy philanthropist" to Tony Stark: "Iron Man".  Yeah, he's still a smart ass loud mouth rich boy, but as soon as the **** hits the fan, he and Steve immediately stop their posturing and get down to heroing.

I wish they'd given Hawkeye a bit more to do in this one than get brainwashed by Loki and be sentimental with Natasha. I did like having that back story in there and I hope they expand on it.  I guess I kind of feel like it wasn't particularly necessary or important to have Hawkeye be a baddie for a while.  That said, I could watch Hawkeye's ass in that costume all day long, particularly if it's getting kicked by Black Widow :P

Thor was hot and kicked a lot of ass ^_^  I hope they use that whole "he can power up the Iron Man suit" thing again.  It has such great potential for awesome on-screen destruction.  They showed good growth from the Thor movie to The Avengers, but I don't know about a lot of growth within this movie.

I hope we see a lot more badass ultra-competent Maria Hill in the SHIELD movie and stuff. She's a fantastic character for them to do cool things with.

For me the standout writing and performance among the actual Avengers was definitely Bruce Banner.  All of his mannerisms were perfect.  He was a man clearly afraid of the potential within himself, but who has gained some measure of control of that and realized that he can't let it control everything he does. One of the things that generally bores me about Banner as a character is that ALL his time and energy is spent worrying about when he's going to accidentally Hulk out again or what he's just done while hulked out.  This Bruce has gotten about as worried about it and as low as he can. That moment where he says “I got low. I put a bullet in my mouth and the Other Guy spit it out.â€Â


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Nice to know I'm not the only one with a Hiddleston-Loki crush. Thanks. :-)


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Tamar wrote:
The other was the AMAZING Hulk flinging Loki around like a rag doll scene, but that had the whole theater in hysterics to the point that you missed Hulk's line just after.

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arenson9 wrote:
"Puny god"

What?!  I couldn't hear you over the sound of Loki's hawtness!  I'll just have to go see it again and again till I catch that line! 


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imprimis5 wrote:
Nice to know I'm not the only one with a Hiddleston-Loki crush. Thanks. :-)

Haha! Nope!  Even if you don't generally do the Tumblr thing, just go there and do a search for Loki.  There you will find all the Loki squee your mischief god loving little heart could desire.


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I was shocked breathless when the son of Coul took that spear through the chest.  I was officially glued to the screen for the rest of the movie.

But in hindsight, why the hell was I surprised?  Joss Whedon is a tricksy bastard who has made it a habit to kill off fan-favorite secondary characters (Fred, Tara, Wash, Book).  But, like I said, he's a tricksy bastard.

Gnipp wrote:
As for Coulson, it sucked, but he could have always been an LMD.  It is a super hero movie after all.

The Life Model Decoy is a possibility; Stark did name-check them so they're officially in the Marvel Movieverse.  But, once you get under the outer synthetic skin, LMDs are machines: they leak hydraulic fluid and oil and sparks, not blood.  I wouldn't count on it being an LMD.

Nick Fury has been known to "mold" the truth in order to achieve his goals.  Just like the bloody cards being used to manipulate Cap, he may have outright lied about Coulson's death to motivate the team into action, operating under the notion it's "easier to ask forgiveness than permission."  No one saw medics attending to Coulson's corpse or calling time of death, no funeral scene (however brief).  All we have is the word of Nick Fury, a master freaking spy, that the man is dead.  This is probably the second-most plausible.

My theory is that Phil is comatose, in a coma he'll probably never awaken from.  Putting some backspin on comic book continuity, Stark and fellow robotics genius Dr. Henry Pym build a fully independent and sentient robot to aid the Avengers and fill out their ranks.  However, its artificial mind is unstable.  They need to base it on something real, experienced, something cool, collected, and able to adapt to any situation.  Stark suggests giving his comatose buddy Phil a second chance and serving his country, copying his mental pattern into the android, creating the Vision.

This is the least likely of the three possibilities.

The most likely is that Phil Coulson is just dead.  Whedon isn't big on resurrection unless everyone is suffering as a result.

-CSR.

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I'd also be pretty unhappy if they shoehorn Vision in without building Ultron first.

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chainsawrabbit wrote:
But in hindsight, why the hell was I surprised?  Joss Whedon is a tricksy bastard who has made it a habit to kill off fan-favorite secondary characters (Fred, Tara, Wash, Book).  But, like I said, he's a tricksy bastard.

Yeah, before we went to see the movie, Chwineka called it for that exact reason.

Adam wrote:
I'd also be pretty unhappy if they shoehorn Vision in without building Ultron first.

They have used a lot of Ultimate stuff, and Ultimate Vision was an alien robot that flies around through space from planet to planet in order to warn about the coming of Ultimate Galactus. It wouldn't be too hard to turn that into warning about Thanos.

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Greonhal wrote:
They have used a lot of Ultimate stuff, and Ultimate Vision was an alien robot that flies around through space from planet to planet in order to warn about the coming of Ultimate Galactus. It wouldn't be too hard to turn that into warning about Thanos.

Showing my ignorance here, I'm sure, but isn't that normally Silver Surfer's thing except with less warning and more, erm, harbinging?

My two favorite things in the movie were 1) the interactions between Cap and Iron man and 2) the moments when they showed just how powerful these heroes are.

For example, I really loved when Thor struck Captain America's shield and pretty much everything but the shield and Mjolnir were ruined. The Hulk punching one of the space dragon things right in the face was pretty much amazing.

Also, the post-nuking admission from the Other that maybe messing with humans is bad times was sweet.


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The Ultimate universe is essentially a modern updating of all things Marvel. In that universe Galactus is called Gah Lak Tus and is a swarm of robotic drone things. They still have a silver surfer type character, who operate more in secret rather than the traditional open herald type role. The Vision was robot sent with a warning from other planets who had been eaten.

I was also impressed by the Thor/America scene, but more by the fact that it was ended by Cap's presence rather than any sort of fight trickery, it really showed the character's strength was more than just his shield. I was half expecting it to end when Cap showed he could pick up the hammer... but I guess they haven't established in any of the movies the 'wielded only by the worthy' aspect of Mjolnir


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Ok, nitpick time......

First off.  I absolutely loved this movie.  Please do not take any of my comments as to mean I did not like it.
Second off.  Cap & Thor are my favorite to superheroes of all time.
Third off.  The scene where Thor hits the shield with the hammer is an amazing effect.  Enough so, I expected to see it again in the city when they were surrounded.

However....

The Shield is supposed to be an adamantium/vibranium composite.  One of the major effects of the vibranium portion is that it would actually absorb the impact.  Not spread it out.  The absorbtion theme is also what makes it possible for Cap to be able to use the shield to block blows which should break/shatter his arm from the impact.

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Gnipp wrote:
The Shield is supposed to be an adamantium/vibranium composite.  One of the major effects of the vibranium portion is that it would actually absorb the impact.  Not spread it out.  The absorbtion theme is also what makes it possible for Cap to be able to use the shield to block blows which should break/shatter his arm from the impact.

I assumed it was a unique behavior because of it being an immovable object/unstoppable force sorta thing.

Also, it looked a lot cooler than the impact just not doing anything.


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Gnipp wrote:
The Shield is supposed to be an adamantium/vibranium composite.  One of the major effects of the vibranium portion is that it would actually absorb the impact.  Not spread it out.  The absorbtion theme is also what makes it possible for Cap to be able to use the shield to block blows which should break/shatter his arm from the impact.

Heheheh... Okay, it has to be said - and mind you, Gnipp, I'm saying it purely for the comedic affect. ;)

Dude, comicbook movie!

8)

In all sincerity, I thought the same thing. Interestingly, in the movies it's only vibranium, and not a composite (stated in Captain America when Stark gives it to Rogers).

I was actually more troubled by where the characters ended up following the hammer-on-sheild action; none of their positions really made any sense.  :-\


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lol, no offense taken.

As I tried to preface.  Nitpick.  The movie is amazing.  So amazing that it has been almost a week and I am still willing to talk about it with anyone who will listen.

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Adam wrote:
I'd also be pretty unhappy if they shoehorn Vision in without building Ultron first.

They have used a lot of Ultimate stuff, and Ultimate Vision was an alien robot that flies around through space from planet to planet in order to warn about the coming of Ultimate Galactus. It wouldn't be too hard to turn that into warning about Thanos.

They have used a lot of Ultimate stuff, you're right, but most of the movie-verse is still closer to 616-Marvel, with the exception of Nick Fury (except now they're trying some Nick Fury Jr. shenanigans). I think that nodding to the original source material is in their best interest, rather than nodding to a nod to the original source material. We can probably expect to see the Pyms in the next Avengers movie, possibly some more recent Avengers like Spider-man or Wolverine, or possibly the post-reboot Fantastic Four, if the big Infinity Gauntlet fight is going to be Avengers 2. (Marvel Studios, now that they have Disney resources, has been working with 20th Century Fox and Sony and trying to get their loose properties umbrella-ed too.)
Speaking in terms of movie-verse, a herald or warning-bot for Thanos wouldn't make much sense, since he's already landed his whole army on earth. How much more warning do you need? Thanos is a much subtler character than Galactus. Galactus - you need a warning because he's aeons old, he's world-ending, and the destruction has happened to countless other worlds. Thanos - has been around for a relatively short time and, given what the movies have shown us, his primary strength has been his army. He's not yet had the Gauntlet or the universe wouldn't still be standing, so other races warning of his coming isn't likely to happen.

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I haven't read the comics, but I assumed the way the shield worked was by being really good at dissipating and redirecting force (hence the iconic sound), so what happened was really the kind of thing I expected.  Also much more flashy and interesting than making nothing happen.

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Saw it last night.  So help me, all I could think during the final confrontation (other than "Cool!") was "Haka, Ra, Wraith, Expatriette, Legacy and Bunker are fighting Grand Warlord Voss in Megalopolis.  Back to back Forced Deployment... then the effing Stalwart showed up."

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Got a little confused by the ending, though.  Near as I can reconstruct, Bunker managed to blunt the THIRD Forced Deployment with a very timely Heroic Interception.  He got incapacitated, but everybody else beat down Voss and won.  It wasn't until later that they realized Heroic Interception was supposed to be in Legacy's deck.  They all had a good laugh over that one.

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Apparently some professional archer actually analyzed Hawkeye's bow technique throughout the movie, and according to him, Hawkeye's form was so poor that he should have missed almost everything he shot at. You'd think they'd have had someone on set teaching Jeremy Renner how to properly use a bow. Though I know nothing about archery, so it looked fine to me.


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I guess Hawkeye's form is so super-humanly amazing that to a mere expert it would look sloppy.
I'd like to see that expert archer blind-fire a a shot so that the wind pushes it into the engine port of a massive turbine - and get it in one shot.

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I feel like the only people who notice this sort of thing are professional archers, so it's probably not worth the money as long as it doesn't look awkward to everyone else.


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Probably right, Ryan - but they could have at least had him shoot with the same handedness between the movies. In Thor, he was shooting right-handed (i.e., pulling with his right hand), while in Avengers he was shooting left-handed.  :-\

That's just silly...


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Hawkeye is ambidextrous. He's a weapons master with either hand.
In various eras and incarnations he's been proven to be able to dispatch foes with bows, swords, guns and even once with his own fingernails (Ultimates 1 & 2 is utterly badass)

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Ah! Well, then I'm just silly. ;)

Thanks, Civi!


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They could of spent 10 seconds covering it, but I guess there were bigger fish to fry.

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Actually, I used to shoot right-handed, then switched to left-handed.  If I had binocular vision, I would spend the time training both arms up.  I do all my spear work the same with both hands, and spear is my weapon of choice, so the idea that someone who is all about archery and the best at it ever would certainly be able to shoot with either hand equally well.


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chainsawrabbit wrote:
I was shocked breathless when the son of Coul took that spear through the chest.  I was officially glued to the screen for the rest of the movie.

But in hindsight, why the hell was I surprised?  Joss Whedon is a tricksy bastard who has made it a habit to kill off fan-favorite secondary characters (Fred, Tara, Wash, Book).  But, like I said, he's a tricksy bastard.

Actually, he has said in an interview it wasn't his idea this time!

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Tony Stark and Hulk made the movie for me. Although watching Hawkeye being a boss was awesome as well.

My favorite part was the movie.


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Tamar, you are not the only one to have a HUGE thing for Loki/Tom Hiddleston. Sighhhhhhh.

You must see "War Horse", for the all-too-brief scenes of Tom Hiddleston as the gallant Captain Nicholls. Sighhhhhh.

Oh yeah, and everyone else in Avengers was pretty good, too.


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