Super Sentai Idealist Unlock Discussion

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QuirkyDM
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I have my unlock to burn if anyone has suggestions. I've been going on here as people think they have the criteria and then doing the absolute minimum based on their proposed solution. I can do experiments if anyone has a worthwhile attempt.

ericmo32
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TakeWalker wrote:

I just look at those and feel like we have nothing to go on. :/ It's unfortunate this was the first one, because the community got better at asking questions with the other two.

 

I know, it's frustrating. I've been trying random combos of Karate Robot first, Floaty Head second then just backing after every thing else after that. The other condition we semi know is that it triggers on her removing cards from under a concept, either by Destruction or Power Use. 

TakeWalker
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And also Bored Now, right?

QuirkyDM
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I am looking at the 10 successful unlock logs that have been posted here. Right away, I see that Karate Robot is played in every single game. Considering that one of the hints given early on was that we have to form the body, does it not make sense that Karate Robot is a part of the unlock?

There’s more to it than that, but it seems like a good place to start. 

Phantom5613
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Thematically, in most Sentai shows, the body of the mech is formed, the head is put into place, and then the mech's weapon is summoned for the fight.

It's silly and probably not important, but does the order the concepts being put into play follow any pattern in the sucessful unlocks?

ericmo32
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TakeWalker wrote:

And also Bored Now, right?

 

Incorrect. Someone unlocked it when they blew up the ID with Argent Adept. 

ericmo32
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Phantom5613 wrote:

Thematically, in most Sentai shows, the body of the mech is formed, the head is put into place, and then the mech's weapon is summoned for the fight.

It's silly and probably not important, but does the order the concepts being put into play follow any pattern in the sucessful unlocks?

 

okay, I’m gonna try the idea of playing Karate->Head->Knives and then emptying the karate with either bored now or power use. 

Velvetisis
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ericmo32 wrote:

 

Phantom5613 wrote:

 

Thematically, in most Sentai shows, the body of the mech is formed, the head is put into place, and then the mech's weapon is summoned for the fight.

It's silly and probably not important, but does the order the concepts being put into play follow any pattern in the sucessful unlocks?

 

 

okay, I’m gonna try the idea of playing Karate->Head->Knives and then emptying the karate with either bored now or power use. 

I've gotten one of my unlocks doing Knives Head Robot.  I'm pretty sure Concept order isn't a requirement.

McBehrer
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Question: did anyone who got the unlock remove any "cards under cards" from play BESIDES the turn they removed all of them?

 

I wonder if doing so (using a concept power before the big one) causes you to fail?


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Velvetisis
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In one of my unlocks I used powers to clear cards out before hand.  FFor my third unlock I did:

Quote:

Things that happened: Got 5 copncepts out not including the Id (the id came out but I immediately got rid of it with GFH then put it under a Robot with the Tiara).  Got 3 cards under each.  Once I did that I tried what I did before: Better punching power - cat head - get rid of one of the other concepts.  Power Phase - cat head - get rid of another concept - end phase super ego uses robot power.  No unlock.

So then I wanted to try keeping 3 concepts under each while I built up one of the robots.  I got to 7 under the robot before I tried a thing.  Better punching -> use a cat head on NOT a concept.  (BP goes under this cat head afterwards) Power Phase -> cat head again to get rid of not a concept.  End Phase Super ego uses a Karate Robot.  Argent Adept's turn next.  Use one of his powers to let Idealist use the power on Knives, then destroys an instrument to destroy the last Robot -> UNLOCK.

ericmo32
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This search has gone on so long, I feel like everyone's answer is some form of: 2 cards under very concept, move them under 1 concept, remove them from under that concept. And people just keep rehashing that same answer in some variety. 

 

 

Problem is... every time I attempt that exact set up, nothing happens. And that answer also has nothing to do with "Build the body before the head."

 

 

I'm just frustrated with this one, I guess. Which makes me not even want to keep hunting the Writhe and Mainstay unlocks. Sorry for the non-helpful, whiny post. 

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ericmo32 wrote:

This search has gone on so long, I feel like everyone's answer is some form of: 2 cards under very concept, move them under 1 concept, remove them from under that concept. And people just keep rehashing that same answer in some variety. 

 

 

Problem is... every time I attempt that exact set up, nothing happens. And that answer also has nothing to do with "Build the body before the head."

 

Same here.  Had a game that ended with ~30 cards under a Karate Robot, and only him, no unlock.  The hints we have don't really tell me anything beyond what we already know.

MindWanderer
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We know a little bit more.  We know that only the Idealist matters (unless another hero gets the Mecha-Knight).  We know that it's based on any cards under the concepts, not just Fragments.  We know the Tiara isn't required.  And the most telling one is "Does the unlock require the set up of x number of cards under concepts before being moved around by either the Monster of the Id, Strained Superego or similar effect?"  All our theories have required exactly that, so that has to be at least one part that we're screwing up.  Unfortunately we have zero counterexamples of an unlock achieved by any other method.


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ericmo32
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We have probably tried this... but could it be empty a Karate Robot with both a head and knives under it? I just got the unlock, but I was just playing and stacking everything I could think of. On iPhone, so can’t post log. I made sure I used the head and knives before I used the robot, and the robot had one copy of both head and knives under it when I hit it with a Bored Now. 

bluedarky
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So, play a game with void Guard idealist, each concept must have had it’s power used at least once, remove all cards from under a karate robot, there must be at least x cards discarded this way including a Flying Stabby Knives and a Giant Floaty head?

 

or something along those lines.

Velvetisis
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There have definitely been unlocks without having concepts under concepts.  There have also been unlocks where only her base power is used.  Ericmo, how many cards did you have under each concept?  Did you move them between each other at all?  How many cards under KR when you used Bored Now? Did you only have the 3 concepts out at time of unlock?

ericmo32
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Velvetisis wrote:

There have definitely been unlocks without having concepts under concepts.  There have also been unlocks where only her base power is used.  Ericmo, how many cards did you have under each concept?  Did you move them between each other at all?  How many cards under KR when you used Bored Now? Did you only have the 3 concepts out at time of unlock?

 

I threw 2 under all of them at one point, as people have done here. I had 20+ under KR when I used Bord Now, but I don't remember the exact amount. At the time of the unlock... Id put itself back into play, and I apologize, I can't remember how many were left in play. 

Locksley
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Has or does using the Rewind feature in the app prevent creating the conditions for unlock?

Missingno
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Locksley wrote:

Has or does using the Rewind feature in the app prevent creating the conditions for unlock?

It doesn't stop it in the Steam version so I doubt it would hit the app versions.


I'll put things in here later.

FearLord
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Locksley wrote:

Has or does using the Rewind feature in the app prevent creating the conditions for unlock?

I’ve used rewind in unlock games in the IPad app so I don’t think it should effect anything.

MindWanderer
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We should probably say "not yet." I wouldn't put it past Christopher to use it for, say, La Comodora. Heck, Idealist does watch a lot of "reruns."


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Caerulo
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Attempted an unlock run constantly rewinding and trying out multiple conditions with no success.

 

Finally unlocked her with what I think is the difference between my failed and successful run:

  • At least 5 (or H) Concepts must enter play with at least one card under it.
  • Then remove all cards under Concepts in play.

 

Some assorted notes:

  • The removal of cards under Concepts does not have to be the same turn or round, I removed all of my cards over two full rounds (villan to environment).
  • Before attempting to removing the cards under Concepts, I had 2 Heads, 2 Robots, 1 Knives and 1 Id in play with 2 cards under each non-Id Concept, and about 20+ cards under Id.
  • I removed the cards under concepts with a combination of moving cards (Superego, Id), using powers and unlocked it with using Bored Now on Id.
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ericmo32
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Caerulo, did you pay attention to if you had any concepts under the ID when you blew it up?

Caerulo
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I had knives under Id when I used Bored Now on it, but I believe others have unlocked theirs without concepts under concepts. 

Velvetisis
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Ok, things I KNOW from my own unlocks and the Idealist Spreadsheet:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iSFjIwt4QAlNw2vvHOs7ae7mSJzoQoIGCiQn9NdemhY/edit#gid=2100095732

Can be done only using the base power

Can be done with any combination of fragments/not fragments under cards

Triggers after clearing all cards out from concepts

Does not require the Tiara.

The order in which concepts come out does not matter

Can be triggered without cards being moved by the Id

Can be triggered without cards being moved by Superego

Can be triggered without cards being moved by the Tiara

The fewest number of cards being moved between cards is only 2. (In both instances it seems like once with the Id and Once with Superego)

The fewest amount of cards cleared last that gave the trigger is 8.

The fewest number of total cleared cards total is 12.

An unlock has not happened with fewer than 5 concepts in play at time of unlock.

An unlock does not require more than 5 concepts to enter play.

There is not a minimum number of *fragments* required in the final step of the unlock.

Unlocks have happened when after getting concepts under cards they have been moved to a single card

Unlocks have happened when after getting concepts under cards they have been cleared out.

 

Also going back to my insufficiently worded question - "Does the unlock require the set up of x number of cards under concepts before being moved around by either the Monster of the Id, Strained Superego or similar effect?"

 

I think maybe the catch is the word before.  I think the way forward now is that we need 5 concepts out with at least two cards under each.  As part of this set up some amount of cards need to be moved around.  We know it can be done without any single card that moves things, but there may be some required minimum combination of the 5 actions that 'move' the cards - Base power, playing a card, Tiara, Superego and Id.  There may be a required number of moves in one turn.  In all my unlocks I had at least one turn where 3 cards were moved.  Important though, in one of my unlocks this only happened once, so if it is a requirement it only needs to happen once.

 

So I'm going to propose:

In a game with Void Guard Idealist at least 5 concepts must enter play and at least 10 cards must be put under them.  At some point 3 cards must be moved under concepts in a single turn.  Then all cards must be cleared from under all concepts.

 

Good luck and good hunting!

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I did that. Well, I did a bit more. I first put ten cards under the robot. Then I put 2 cards under each concept. Then I put 38 cards under the robot.

No unlock.


"2+2=4-1=3 Quick maths"

2+2=3

Velvetisis
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Throwing more spaghetti onto the wall: 

In a game with Void Guard Idealist 5 concepts must enter play and have 2 cards put under them.  Once a concept has 2 cards under it it can not leave play.  After this set up all cards must be cleared out from under all concepts.  At some point before clearing all cards from under Concepts 3 cards must be moved under cards in one turn.

Freeflare
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Decided to replicate Ensign53's strat to see if it worked.  5 concepts out, 3 cards under each.  Got 11 stacked up under Karate Robot, left 3 under Giant Floaty Head, and one under a random one.  Used the primary power to clear 3 from head, moved the last from the random to Robot, and then used the bonus power from Strained Superego on Robot to clear all 12.  Worked a treat, achievement recieved when the last of Robot's stack was cleared.

Very little was happening for about 12 turns as I waited until all 5 concepts had 3 cards under them before moving things around with Strained Superego.  Basically had drawn the entire deck at that point, and was just skipping turns to get the moving done.

Done against Ambulscade in Freedom Tower, with Greatest Legacy, Team Lead Tachyon, Omnitron X, and of course Idealist.

Anyway, that seems a reliable way to unlock it. Log if it's helpful.

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Missingno
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Right, hang on I'm gonna attempt to shotgun here.

All of the previous unlock condition guesses but with every instance of the number 2 replaced with the number 1.

Just in case.


I'll put things in here later.

Lemee_Adam
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What if it has to do with fragments leaving play without being destroyed


"2+2=4-1=3 Quick maths"

2+2=3

Missingno
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Lemee_Adam wrote:

What if it has to do with fragments leaving play without being destroyed

You might be onto something here if there aren't any unlocks where the unlock happened after using a power on a card.  My "blow up Monster of Id" unlock did not have the cards under it destroyed.


I'll put things in here later.

statue345
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I know I destroyed all of the fragments when I unlocked mine.

Velvetisis
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Fragments or concepts?  I also noticed in the logs that destroy the Id the unlock happens before the Id is technically destroyed in the log

statue345
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I destroyed all the fragments by using the powers on the concepts. I never had any concepts destroyed.

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From the hint we got - “Form the body before you form the head” - I want to assume it’s all about the Karate Robot somehow, but I’m not seeing the pattern.

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Made a few more attempts based on the theory that form the Body refers to getting 5 concepts in play with 2 cards under each and form the head refers to moving the cards under 1 concept and then destroying or returning the cards to your hand... still no unlock.

FearLord
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After spending the last 3 weeks getting the achievements for all of the other character unlocks, this is literally the last one I need! I’m just stumped about what we’re missing. I’ve tried to recreate it several times based on what has worked for others here, and I still don’t seem to be able to get it...

ericmo32
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Soooo... coming up on 3 months with no solve. This thread hasn't moved in 2 weeks. Thought I'd prod the bear and see if anyone has any ideas left... because I sure don't.

Velvetisis
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I've been noodling around with something.  So in one of the early unlocks it was assumed that turn order mattered (since someone unlocked it using Bored Now?) and in the successful logs that either put out 5 concepts with 3 cards or more than 5 with 2 cards there seems to take either a lot of time or a lot of card draw.  Maybe she needs to either draw every card in her deck or draw enough to shuffle her trash into her deck (those might mean the same thing >.>)?

I know in one of my games I managed to get the unlock in only 9 rounds, but even in that I went through her whole deck.

ƒ(>.>)ƒ

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Hey, long time reader of these forums, and avid player of the game on paper.
I'm looking through the logs right now, because this might be worth checking.

Also, first time poster. WHEE!


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catDreaming
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Just looked through all of the successful unlock logs on Velveltisis' spreadsheet, and all of them do show Idealist attempting to draw a card from her empty deck prior to the unlock. Time for a (admittedly stretching) theory!

Form The Body: Put out the concepts with fragments underneath them

Form The Head: Shuffle Idealist's Trash into her Deck through drawing cards OR have an empty trash and deck

Summon The Weapon: Do the thing with getting rid of fragments.

I didn't check for anything other than the drawing cards condition, but the results of checking the side-by-side logs hopefully help someone else examine them more closely.

Epiku, LockeNKant: Idealist had not shuffled her trash into her empty deck through drawing cards before a rewind caused by a failed unlock.

UXM266, Feral Yoda, young.haribo, Velvetisis#1, Velvetisis#2: Idealist had shuffled her trash into her empty deck through drawing cards before a rewind caused by a failed unlock.


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Velvetisis
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Failed unlock.  I tried a game where I set up 5 concepts, got only a single card underneath each, drew her entire deck, moved cards out from under 2 of the concepts, then used Bored Now/Super Ego to empty the remaining 3 concepts, no luck.  2 might be the magic number of cards to get under concepts, or there may be something else going on.

Velvetisis
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previous fail: https://pastebin.com/BuF91i6z

New Fail: https://pastebin.com/ni4uV41h

Getting 2 cards underneath didn't do it.  Maybe there needs to be more than 10 cards underneath concepts? Or maybe they need to be there for a cerain number of rounds before clearing them?

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Weird idea, may have nothing to do with the unlock.

Do the number of concepts in play have to match or at least meet up to the number of active heroes in the game when the unlock is attempted?

Velvetisis
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I know people have gotten it with all 7 concepts out and with as few as 5, but as far as I'm aware never less than 5.  I've gotten it with 5 concepts and 5 heroes, and also 5 concepts and 4 heroes.

Blackfang108
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So ti doesn't look like number of concepts is tied to H.

Could the number of cards under concepts be tied to H?

Usoki
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I'm late to the party here.  I tried to read a lot of things, but I will have inevitably missed things, so apologies.

  • Does the unlock require the set up of x number of cards under concepts before being moved around by either the Monster of the Id, Strained Superego or similar effect?
  • MigrantP: "This question is too complicated so I need to think about whether it's yes or no. I recommend making your questions simpler. 'Cause, like, technically I have to say no because your question has too many qualifiers in it, so think about that! Make your questions more straight forward and you might get more information."

I saw someone wondering if the issue was the word "before" but honestly, as an outsider, the "or similar effect" seems to be the issue.  Since Monster of Id or Strained Superego are the only two ways to move cards, the "or similar effect" would also make the question a "no" answer.  The tiara places cards, but it doesn't move them, and I can't think of any other way to move cards.  It seems like everyone is placing concepts first and then moving them, so the before might be valid?  Though if people have played and moved concepts while getting the setup burst that leads to the unlock, I can see where the "before" might be the issue.

Have people played concepts and then not put anything under them?  Like, played 7 concepts, put cards under 3 of them but 4 of them were left empty?

Also, being new, I don't know how close we have to get the text for it to count.  Does it have to be exact?  Because Benchmark's formula is bonkers, and part of me wonders if that is part of the issue.  Like, maybe the two statements are close but the formulas are off?  Given that the number of concepts is between 5 and 7 but no less, that makes me wonder if the unlock has an H + 2 concepts aspect to it?  The reddit question about things outside Idealist's board state being a no (for now) implies that another player getting the Mecha Knight reward could affect the unlock, IMO.  But outside from that card being a concept, I'm not sure how else that would affect things.  The number of cards also seems odd... maybe there is an H x 4 minimum of cards that need destroyed during the last burst?

I haven't unlocked her yet, but I figured I would wait in case there is something useful I could test.

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Success #4 for me: https://pastebin.com/KzC1Xerm

I'm at work, so I don't have time to comb through the log, but I did it using End of Days to clear out cards under concepts, it triggered after the last card was taken out, but before the rest of the destruction.  Big thing I'm noticing is that I had 4 concepts + the Id (total of 5) and used end of days 2 rounds in a row and rewound when it didn't work.  Putting out a 5th non-Id concept seemed to work?  It only ever got 1 card under it and was only around for the turn it came out, then Fanatic's, then it was cleared.

Usoki
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Success for me!  I went with the End of Days route.  There's a lot of rewinding with EoD, but I think that was the only time I used rewind.  Five concepts in play, eleven fragments underneath the concepts.  Monster of Id never even made it out of the deck, which seems pretty huge.

The big tell here for me is that End of Days did NOT work until I played Strained Superego, and then moved one card.  Plus, I had to destroy only the fragments and not the concepts in order for End of Days to work.  When I pressed "choose for me" it would destroy some of the concepts first, and that did not cause the unlock.

There are two things I'm still uncertain about.  One, is it one turn?  One round?  Multiple rounds?  And Two, do you have to play at least one copy of each fragment?  I tried all fragments before trying a card move with Ego, so I'm not certain if that's required or not.  Given that you seem to need at least 10 fragments destroyed, I'm not sure if that matters.  On the other hand, maybe it's possible you only need one card under each concept for a total of 5 or 6?  Not sure, not sure.  But still.  Progress.

So my guess is this:

  • Play a match with a team including Void Guard Idealist. At least 5 concepts other than the Monster of Id must enter play, with at least 1 card under each concept. Strained Superego must move at least one card from one concept to another.  Then, in a single round, remove all cards from underneath all concepts in play, with all concepts remaining in play.
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Usoki
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Cross-posting (ish) from the Discord...

If Strained Ego is not related to VG-I unlock, the fact that my unlock failed one turn and worked the next implies a minimum number of rounds again. Velvet and I both unlocked the variant on round 7, which is an oddly specific number. But I can't imagine a function of cards vs round, because I had 11 v 7, and one other unlock had 25 vs 15... and that's a big disparity.

So now we're back to something like... Play a match with a team including Void Guard Idealist. At least 5 concepts other than the Monster of Id must enter play, with at least 1 card under each concept. (At least one copy of each fragment must be under a concept?) Then, in a single round after round 6, remove all cards from underneath all concepts in play, with all concepts remaining in play.  I don't like that "single round after round 6" bit, but at the same time I'm not sure what condition it could be. I didn't have all fragments under a concept until during round six?  And also, another problem with that setup is that people who take the time to put the entire deck under the robot shouldn't be failing.  So maybe...

Play a match with a team including Void Guard Idealist. At least 5 concepts other than the Monster of Id must enter play.  At the end of a round, at least one copy of each fragment must be under a concept, with at least one card under each concept and at least 10 cards total under all concepts. Then, in the next round, remove all cards from underneath all concepts in play, with all concepts remaining in play.

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