Super Sentai Idealist Unlock Discussion

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JimB
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Escher wrote:
Big twist from Haribo over on the Steam board: Bored Now is not required.  He got the unlock by using a giant robot punch.
I'm thinking there's three requirements:
In a game with Void Guard Idealist,
1) Have all 6 ongoing concept cards in play with two cards (fragments?) under each.
2) Then, use Superego to move a card from under one concept to another at least 10 times. (Not sure about this one, I'm guessing)
3) Then, remove at least 12 cards from under a concept at once, leaving no cards under any concepts.

This can't be it; I just tried that very strategy, with the only difference being I destroyed thirty cards under a concept at once (I had Freedom Five Legacy in the group helping me spam cards).


Kupo.

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Escher wrote:

In a game with Void Guard Idealist,

1) Have all 6 ongoing concept cards in play with two cards (fragments?) under each.

2) Then, use Superego to move a card from under one concept to another at least 10 times. (Not sure about this one, I'm guessing)

3) Then, remove at least 12 cards from under a concept at once, leaving no cards under any concepts.

 

I did exactly these things and unlocked it. Ended it with a 30 card Bored Now from under the Karate Robot, but apparently that's not necessary. Monster of Id was in my trash at the end, and I never had more than 1 card under it while it was in play.

 

https://pastebin.com/PEp3pp17

McBehrer
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Maybe it's have EVERY Concept (all 7) with at least 1 fragment each?


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector

Missingno
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In my unlock I only had 9 cards moved by Superego so if it is required then it's only needed 5 times.


I'll put things in here later.

Velvetisis
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I got my unlock only using 6 concepts (I intentionally didn't play one of the knives) got two under each then let the Id take them all before using bored now for a total of 12 fragments.  I never played Strained Superego, so that's not a requirement nor is having all the concepts in play.

FallenPrime826
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Alright, so there are unlocks that don't have every Concept on the board. I think the important thing is the board states Idealist has throughout the game:

1. All Concepts in play have at least two cards beneath them.
2. One Concept hoards every under-card on the board, and the others are empty.
3. All Concepts in play have no cards beneath them.

I think one thing we should test is, instead of hoarding cards underneath the one Concept, just procedurally dumping all the Concepts until only one has any, then dumping that one so none of them have any. The unlock triggers the moment board-state 3 is true, and this would prove whether it needs to be a particularly large dump, and if it needs to be an external removal/destruction effect that targets the Concept and forces it to empty. It'll also tell us whether any of those cards are allowed to LEAVE the board as opposed to being consolidated under one Concept.

We should also test to figure out how many Concepts ACTUALLY need to be out, and if it can be done with fewer than six. I'm positive that part of the thing that's keeping us from narrowing down the EXACT condition is that precise number.

payprplayn
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has there been an unlock yet that didn't use each power (or at least each power from a concept) at least once?  I'm pretty sure I satisfied those three conditions you have there with no unlock.  It wasn't until I made the point to use every power that I got it.

Velvetisis
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For my unlock I only ever used her base power.

payprplayn
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Velvetisis wrote:

For my unlock I only ever used her base power.

hmm, I must have done something else wrong then.  Carry on.

waedens
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There is a lot of good new information. New theory:

In one turn at least 1 of each fragment must be moved out from under a concept leaving no fragments under any concept. Prior to that each concept must have been in play at the same time with at least 1 fragment underneath each concept.

I feel like we are playing an eloborate game of clue...Mr Green in the Library with the Knife. Prove me wrong.

lynkfox
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Got her

 

I tried a lot fo different things. Every fragment played once and put under once (so I played each one in the play phase, and used her base power to play it) - Nothing happened.

Moved every fragment, 1 of each under Monster of ID and Bored Now it. Nothing unlocked

Moved 2 of each fragment under Karate Robot, and used itos poewr (to destroy them) nothing happened

 

got every concept in play (all of them) Had 2 of each fragment in Karate Robot, and one of each non fragment non concept there as well. Used Karate Robot, and got the unlock

 

Log

https://pastebin.com/nra2bWpX


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FallenPrime826
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waedens wrote:

There is a lot of good new information. New theory:

In one turn at least 1 of each fragment must be moved out from under a concept leaving no fragments under any concept. Prior to that each concept must have been in play at the same time with at least 1 fragment underneath each concept.

I feel like we are playing an eloborate game of clue...Mr Green in the Library with the Knife. Prove me wrong.

On the subject of knives, Velvetisis got it while very deliberately not playing one of the Flying Stabby Knives. The second sentence doesn't quite match up to that.

rjc917
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FallenPrime826 wrote:

 

waedens wrote:

 

There is a lot of good new information. New theory:

In one turn at least 1 of each fragment must be moved out from under a concept leaving no fragments under any concept. Prior to that each concept must have been in play at the same time with at least 1 fragment underneath each concept.

I feel like we are playing an eloborate game of clue...Mr Green in the Library with the Knife. Prove me wrong.

 

On the subject of knives, Velvetisis got it while very deliberately not playing one of the Flying Stabby Knives. The second sentence doesn't quite match up to that.

That suggests to me that we need to distinguish between playing every concept and playing every unique concept.

waedens
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Update: my previous theory is wrong. I went back and reviewed all the success logs I could find and I focused on what was removed from the concept just before the unlock. Here is what is not needed:

Bored Now, Focusing Tiara, Making Things Up, Strained Super Ego, Vivid Thoughts, none of the Concepts. 

In addition there was one success where only 10 of the fragments were removed. Of those 10, Better Punching was not there. The only one with 3 copies was Conceptualize. The others had 1 or 2 copies. There was some other stuff that was determined to not be needed.

So it is either a pure numbers game (i.e. 15 cards must be removed), a fragment numbers game (i.e.at least 9 fragments must be removed), a fragment combination game (i.e. at least 3 of one type of fragment must be removed or 5 out of the 6 fragments), or a combination  of these (i.e. 15 cards minimum with at least 3 of one fragment).

This is confounded by some precondition prior to the final trigger that we have not nailed down, but at least we now have a list of what is not required for the final trigger.

lynkfox
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I'm thinking this:

 

In one turn at least one of each fragment must be moved from under a concept, leaving no fragements in play. Each unique concept must be in play at the time, and a total of at least 6 concepts must be in play.

 

I might considering adding:

 

Each fragment has to resolve its effect at least once.

 

You might also need to add a cavaet:

 

X number of fragments have to be moved to a different concept over the course of the game.

 

EDIT: Ignore. Waedens has some info that contridicts most of these.


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waedens
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lynkfox wrote:

EDIT: Ignore. Waedens has some info that contridicts most of these.

Lynkfox, you may be on to something. My latest info is only for the last trigger. Your stuff os all about the precondition setup. It is definitely not just one or the other. Both things have to be right. I am focusing on the trigger because it is easier to get info on.

waedens
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Ok going through these logs is hard! If you have two of the sam concept out and a fragment gets put under a concept you can't tell which one it is going under. My current guess is this:

First, you must get 2 of each FS Kinves, GF Head and K Robot in play with at least 10 total fragments under them and at least 1 fragment under each. Then you must move 10 fragments out from under a concept at once leaving no other fragments under a concept in play.

 

payprplayn
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waedens wrote:

Ok going through these logs is hard! If you have two of the sam concept out and a fragment gets put under a concept you can't tell which one it is going under. My current guess is this:

First, you must get 2 of each FS Kinves, GF Head and K Robot in play with at least 10 total fragments under them and at least 1 fragment under each. Then you must move 10 fragments out from under a concept at once leaving no other fragments under a concept in play.

 

Pretty sure I did that in one of my failures.  In fact, I think I did it in several.  Has there been a success yet to demonstrate that the number of cards which must be under each concept for the first condition is no greater than 1?  I haven't done an exhaustive review, but all the successes I know of had at least 2.

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I just did it with all 7 concepts in play, with 2 each, then with 26 cards (including all fragments) and used Bored now. Failed.

 

We're missing something. Any consistency with teammates, environments, villains, etc.?


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector

UXM266
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For those who failed, what rider did you put the concepts in play? Maybe that’s the hidden feature?


I THOUGHT I was the the last Scion but it's actually .....

waedens
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McBehrer wrote:

I just did it with all 7 concepts in play, with 2 each, then with 26 cards (including all fragments) and used Bored now. Failed.

 

We're missing something. Any consistency with teammates, environments, villains, etc.?

The only thing I can think of is that the power on Strained Super Ego may need to be used a certain number of times. I have seen unlock logs that don't use powers on concepts, but they used SSE amd the base power a bunch.

PS - When you used Bored Now no other concepts had fragments, correct? That is a known requirement. 

Velvetisis
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When I did my unlock I never played Superego.  I did use the base power and the tiara though.

McBehrer
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Yeah i used Superego a lot, and EVERY CARD was under the Monster, besides the other concepts themselves


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector

lynkfox
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I don't have time to comb througfh logs, but do the logs make a distniction of 'Playing' a fragment vrs putting one directly under a Concept?

 

And has anyone who has posted an Unlock only had fragments under  card or did they have others? (i end up with 1 of each card in the deck under Karate Robot when I blew it up, along with each concept in play and 6 total (doubled up on ... flying stabbys and karate) plus tiara and strained super ego.

 

so do maybe you ahve to have non fragment cards destroyed/removed from under a card in the process


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McBehrer wrote:
I just did it with all 7 concepts in play, with 2 each, then with 26 cards (including all fragments) and used Bored now. Failed.
 
We're missing something. Any consistency with teammates, environments, villains, etc.?

I think I unlocked her with Skinwalker Gloomweaver in the Freedom Tower, since that's the easiest deck combo to control and stall. I was using Freedom Five Absolute Zero, Freedom Five Legacy, Dark Visionary, and Prime Wardens Argent Adept. I used "Strained Superego" to make sure "Monster of Id" was destroyed before it could ever take a card under itself, but I had all six other concept cards in play, with two cards under each. I never put "Monster of Id" under a concept, instead leaving it in my trash by not drawing cards after my deck emptied. I moved one card from each concept to one of the "Karate Robot" cards and destroyed them all with "Bored Now;" it didn't unlock. In the same game, I got "Karate Robot" back into play, and transferred all the cards under any other concept to "Karate Robot" and blew it up with "Bored Now." The second time, it unlocked.


Kupo.

waedens
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lynkfox wrote:

And has anyone who has posted an Unlock only had fragments under  card or did they have others? (i end up with 1 of each card in the deck under Karate Robot when I blew it up, along with each concept in play and 6 total (doubled up on ... flying stabbys and karate) plus tiara and strained super ego.

Yes there is at leadt 1 log that only had fragments. 

waedens
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lynkfox wrote:

I don't have time to comb througfh logs, but do the logs make a distniction of 'Playing' a fragment vrs putting one directly under a Concept?

There is no specific note in the log, but based on past unlocks I guess anything is possible. 

Velvetisis
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I caved and bought VG on Android.

Fail Log: https://pastebin.com/FUqHgtmG

Tried playing only 4 Fragments (one of each including the Id, Robot -> Head -> Knives -> Id), got two under each then funneled to the Id, Bored Now.  Never played Superego, never played tiara.  The two differences between this and my success (that I am aware of in terms of intentional choices) are only playing 4 concepts instead of 6 and not playing the tiara.  Gonna try again later playing the tiara this time.  I guess we'll see ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Here's another failure. Mostly concentrated on getting things under the robot, then blowing it up with Bored Now. Which, reading back seems to no longer be what things are hinging on...

Attachment(s): 
Velvetisis
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Another fail: https://pastebin.com/dLHDMnM7

Tried with 5 concepts and the tiara before bored now with the Id. 

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Unlocked Super Sentai Idealist, trying a method I've seen in this discussion. FF Legacy, F6 Tachyon, VG Idealist, Wraith and VG Doctor Medico against Gloomweaver in Freedom Tower.
https://pastebin.com/gDQ45vhS

I put all Concepts in play, put two and only two Fragments under each - nothing but Fragments. I then moved all the Fragments under Monster of Id and played Bored Now, it unlocked as soon as the Fragments returned to my hand - before the damage was done.

Perhaps returning a certain number of Fragments to your hand in one turn is the key?

Missingno
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firelock_ny wrote:

Perhaps returning a certain number of Fragments to your hand in one turn is the key?

It's not returning to hand.  Other people, including myself, have gotten it by destroying a concept without returning cards to the hand.


I'll put things in here later.

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> It's not returning to hand.  Other people, including myself, have gotten it by destroying a concept without returning cards to the hand.

OK. I was thinking that might be a thing because the log showed that the unlock happened right after the last card was returned to hand...maybe taking it out from under the Concept triggered it.

I did it, but I have no way of figuring out how much of what I did to do it was necessary. ;-)

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I have an unlock that may help?

I was doing the usual setup, and managed to get all 6 concepts in play, with 2+ fragments under each. Then I moved a bunch of fragments and other cards under Monster of Id (as per usual). I was falling behind a bit on the game, so I had to use other concepts powers a few times, destroying the fragments below.

Eventually, I got 20+ cards (I think 21, although I don't remember exactly; definitely not all fragments) under Monster of Id. I used Bored Now to return Monster of Id to the deck and move all fragments to hand. No Unlock. I had messed up and left one Fragment under a Karate Robot.

The same turn I used that Karate Robot's power and the second that last Fragment was destroyed, there was an unlock.

That suggests that the final condition might be something like move a bunch of cards in one turn, instead of having to be all at once.

Here's my guess:

While playing as Void Guard The Idealist, first get all 6 Concepts into play, each with at least 2 Fragments under them. Then, move at least 20 cards from under Concepts in a single turn, such that no cards remain under any Concepts in play.

Velvetisis
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Quote:

While playing as Void Guard The Idealist, first get all 6 Concepts into play, each with at least 2 Fragments under them. Then, move at least 20 cards from under Concepts in a single turn, such that no cards remain under any Concepts in play.

All 6 is innaccurate: there are 7 total including the Id, but not all of them need to be in play; I got mine only having 6 (I only played one of the knives).  I also got mine only removing 12 cards from under the Id, not 20.  So I would propose:

While playing as Void Guard The Idealist, first get 6 Concepts into play, each with at least 2 Fragments under them. Then, move at least 12 cards from under Concepts in a single turn, such that no cards remain under any Concepts in play.

Maybe the removing in a single turn (not action) is the wording we've been missing

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I just had a failed unlock. TL Tachyon, Grandpa Legs, Medico, and Idealist vs Amuscade in the block.

 

Got all 7 concepts out. 2 under each. Then moved them all to one. Had 30+ cards under it. Used the power, no unlock.

 

This unfortunately seems to disprove a lot of the unlocks here. Willing to answer any questions anyone has.

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Log text for reference

Attachment(s): 
FearLord
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I’m going to suggest:

Have at least one of each unique Construct in play. Have at least one of each unique Fragment in play under one or more constructs and then remove all fragments from play in a single turn.

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FearLord wrote:

I’m going to suggest:

Have at least one of each unique Construct in play. Have at least one of each unique Fragment in play under one or more constructs and then remove all fragments from play in a single turn.

 

I think I did this one already, as all of the fragments in my game were under the karate robot at the end.

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Do you have a burning question about Void Guard Super Sentai Idealist? Now's your chance to ask it: https://www.reddit.com/r/sentinelsmultiverse/comments/9upxvq/ask_me_5_things_void_guard_super_sentai_idealist/?


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I don’t know if it has been mentioned, confirmed, or rejected, but considering the “Form the head” clue, I wonder if part of the unlock includes having Superego and Id both in play, or having Superego underneath Id (and then being brought out from under it)?

 

I just unlocked her using the general Methods being talked about here, but I’m no scientist! Also on iOS, so no log.

Escher
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MCPooge wrote:
I don’t know if it has been mentioned, confirmed, or rejected, but considering the “Form the head” clue, I wonder if part of the unlock includes having Superego and Id both in play, or having Superego underneath Id (and then being brought out from under it)?

We've had unlocks that reject both possibilities.

TakeWalker
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So, to sum up the reddit AM5...

  • The unlock does not require more than 5 Concepts to be put into play. (But because the question was worded this way, we could still need to play 5 or more Concepts.)
  • The unlock does not require setting up a number of cards under Concepts before moving those cards around.
  • There is no minimum number of Fragments in the final step of the unlock.
  • When cards are removed from under a Concept, no part of the current board state outside the Idealist's play area affects whether the unlock condition is met. (For now; as a commenter notes, the Mecha-Knight could have an effect on this if you feel like using Oblivaeon for unlocks I guess.)
  • It does not matter if the cards under Concepts are Fragments specifically.

And that's it. Honestly don't feel like we learned a whole lot, though at least the second question negates the "2 under each Concept, them move them all under 1 Concept" theory. Which then leaves us back at square one?

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I don't recommend making inaccurate summarizations.


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The thing sticking out to me: I asked Does the unlock require the set up of x number of cards under concepts before being moved around by either the Monster of the Id, Strained Superego or similar effect?

MigrantP's response: Let me just think about this. (...) This question is too complicated so I need to think about whether it's yes or no. I recommend making your questions simpler.  'Cause, like, technically I have to say no because your question has too many qualifiers in it, (someone in the background says 'aaah') so think about that!  Make your questions more straight forward and you might get more information.

Yvaine: You're very picky.

So I think there's still something there, the question is what.

Velvetisis
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I'm going to propose:

Play a game with Void Guard Idealist.  5 concepts must be put into play and at one point have at least 2 cards under each at the same time.  Then in one turn remove all cards from under any and all concepts in play.

Velvetisis
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Nope >.> that failed.

https://pastebin.com/tVxBnn6C

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In effort for an accurate summary: the answer to all of these questions were no.

 

  • Does it matter whether, in the final event that triggers the unlock, the cards under the Concept are Fragments specifically?

 

  • When cards are removed from under a Concept, does any part of the current board state outside of the Idealist's play area affect whether or not the condition is met?*

 

  • Does the unlock require the set up of x number of cards under concepts before being moved around by either the Monster of the Id, Strained Superego or similar effect?

 

  • Does the unlock require more than 5 concepts to have been put into play?

 

  • Does the unlock require playing the tiara?

 

  • Is there a minimum number of fragments in the final step of the unlock?

 

* The answer for this was actually "no(for now)"

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Maybe cards just have to be moved around a set number of times and then all cards under concepts have to leave play during the same turn?

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Just played another game with no unlock. At one point had 2 cards under each of the 7 concepts, later destroyed/ returned to hand 28 cards in one turn to end up with no cards under any concepts.

 

... I'm pretty stumped at this point.

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