A Hero's Guide to Guise or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb

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Trajector
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First of all, kreistor: wow. Cool.

So, I work in a particularly acronym-heavy field, and my general conclusion is this:

There are two kinds of jargon, including acronyms. The first kind adds meaning and understanding. Essentially, that kind names things for which we don't yet have names. This is good. However, the other kind of jargon exists to exclude people who aren't "in the know."

My opinion is that we should always try to limit jargon to the first kind. The personal rule I use to do this is that I only use acronyms that a layperson would recognize as a "word." For example, "TV," "laser," and "NASA" are all okay. But everything else, I write out.

I'm also that pain in the neck guy who, in technical meetings, demands that acronyms be defined the first time I see them. Or I make up the most ridiculous meaning I can to fit the letters.

kreistor, you're clearly a well-spoken individual who doesn't shy away from writing. I doubt the abbreviations save you much time. Please consider how they come across to other readers of your posts in the future when they occur in such density. Even when I do have the cards memorized, it's tough for me to understand what you mean.

Except the numbers. That was a LOT of damage!

Arcanist Lupus
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My general policy on the forums (and elsewhere to, but so far it has mainly come up on the forums) is to spell out the name the first time I use it, and then use acronyms afterwards.  Even then, I generally only use acronyms when they're commonly used (e.g. TtE for Twist the Ether) or a particularly long name (UYITG for Uh, Yeah I'm that Guy (which isn't so much long as full of annoying punctuation)) that I'm repeating a lot.  That way, even a reader unfamiliar with the card names has a reasonable chance of figuring out what the acronyms are referring to from context.

 

Also, it's worth noting that there is a third reason for using acronyms.  Several of my limericks would not scan nearly as well if I hadn't used AZ for Absolute Zero.


"Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?"

- Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

kreistor
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All of Guise's card names are higher up in this thread, already spelled in full with decent enough descriptions. You only need to scroll back further than the top of my post. This was my second post about that particular combo. I didn't think it necessary to spell out Micro Targetting Computer, since Wraith is an original deck, and in the video game, so you don't even have to bust out your cards.

If you don't know the cards yet, then it really doesn't matter if I use acronyms or spell it out, sicne you're going to be getting out the deck to look up details anyway.

And I think I'm going to correct myself. Guise going first and being careful in his order of play of Ongoings can actually increase the damage, but you need two additional cards in hand.

Guise Turn: Guise plays Super Ultra Kawaii (SUK) and uses Tough Choices to play Guise the Barbarian (GtB) and deals 1 (+2+2 =5). SUK allows him to play Blatant Reference (BR) and BR discards one to deal another 5.

Hero 2: SUK allows Guise to play Lemme See That to act like Yngwie and steal Wraith's Micro Targetting Computer, BR discards to deal 7.

Hero 3: SUK allows Guise to play I'm that Guy and high five Legacy's player (which is schizophrenic when you're playing Guise and Legacy in a two player game), BR discards to deal 9.

Hero 4: SUK allows Guise to play Selling Out (SO), and BR discards to deal 9.

On environment turn, SO allows 3 One-shots to be played, with the prerequisite "Woo!!!"s and watching Frost sweat to death. The One-shots are exactly equivalent in each case, since both situations have 3 played after all the buffs are out. The difference is one additional use of BR. There is one additional instance of a discard on Guise's Turn, but it is weaker due to fewer buffs. It results in 2 discards dealing 12 damage, instead of 1 dealing 9 (all mine were for 9). The Tough Choices damage was identical with BtR only.

I'm inclined to leave Guise last, anyway. Others make more sense for deck manipulation up front (specifically Wraith's Infrared Eyepiece to guide Legacy's Next Evolution), and first Turn card draw (Team Leader Tachyon).

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Umm, actually, not being familiar with a deck doesn't mean I don't know what any of the cards do. It just means I don't instantly know which card you're talking about when you use an initialism. I know what most of Guise's cards do, I just can't instantly remember their names off the top of my head. If you must shorten the names, perhaps just shorten them to a single word or something instead, like Kawaii or Barbarian - then you still got to type less things but the rest of us have a much greater chance of not requiring a translation ;).


I am the Wordweaver...

Basically, I like writing stuff ;)

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Yeah, I know what a lot of cards do but I don't recognize a lot of acronyms.

Ameena
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It's an acronym if the letters spell out a "word" (like NASA or NATO), otherwise its an initialism (where it's just a cluster of letters you have to say separately, like WWF or RSPCA) ;).


I am the Wordweaver...

Basically, I like writing stuff ;)

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So what cards can be Acronyms?  BWYN, EoD, ZO, I'm going to start pronouncing them now.

Trajector
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Ameena wrote:

It's an acronym if the letters spell out a "word" (like NASA or NATO), otherwise its an initialism (where it's just a cluster of letters you have to say separately, like WWF or RSPCA) ;).


Whatever we call them, they are equally terrible and obfuscating.
kreistor
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I only used acronyms for cards already mentioned in this thread, or for decks in the original set and video game that everyone should recognize. I also identified which acronyms associated with which Hero Decks, making it easy to track them down if you don't know them. I gave the necessary context anyone needed to find the information they needed quickly and easily. "Legacy had IP and SOS." So where do you look for IP and SOS? Not rocket science.

Arcanist Lupus
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Ameena wrote:

It's an acronym if the letters spell out a "word" (like NASA or NATO), otherwise its an initialism (where it's just a cluster of letters you have to say separately, like WWF or RSPCA) ;).


You mean that you don't pronounce RSPCA?

"Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?"

- Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

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I just think that assuming everyone knows what you're talking about or expecting them to go off and look it up is somewhat off-putting, particularly to those who might be new to the game. We don't want to scare them off with all these weird letter combos being thrown everywhere, we want them to understand what we're talking about and actually read the threads and know what's going on. This came up in a thread somewhere ages ago, I seem to recall.


I am the Wordweaver...

Basically, I like writing stuff ;)

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Ameena wrote:

It's an acronym if the letters spell out a "word" (like NASA or NATO), otherwise its an initialism (where it's just a cluster of letters you have to say separately, like WWF or RSPCA) ;).

However, acronym colloquially means initialism too. At least that's common usage.

Either way, unfettered usage is obfuscatory.

Trajector
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Ameena wrote:

I just think that assuming everyone knows what you're talking about or expecting them to go off and look it up is somewhat off-putting, particularly to those who might be new to the game.

Plus, when we use the card names or parts of the card names, it sounds more like we're describing a comic-book battle! Fun all around!

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I agree about acronyms/initialisms/abbreviations/cute pet names. They make posts hard to understand, and they are off-putting for new people. Heck, they are off putting for me too, and I'm not exactly new. There are obviously other experienced players here who feel the same way.

I like to think I have a good grasp on the majority of the cards and their names and effects after hundreds of games, and it's still extremely difficult for me to translate a bunch of letters into a card name (even if you've just typed it out in full a sentence ago). It's like one of those puzzles where you have to work out that "7 D in a W" means "7 days in a week", which only works as a puzzle because people find it difficult to recognise words from their initials.

Ever seen Wheel of Fortune when the contestant knows most of the letters but still can't "see" the phrase? Yeah, that's what it's like.

And I have to admit that I hate to see anything that makes the forum less easy to understand. It's really not that hard to type stuff out, or shorten it in a way that still makes sense. I often say things like "Wrathful", "the Shotgun", "Aurora", "Pushing", or "Chrono", assuming that they are obvious enough that people know what I mean. I'd sure as hell stop doing that if someone told me it was difficult to understand.


Just assume I'm always doing that.

Damn it, Ronway!

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I just thought of a hilarious way to do a ton of damage with a great thematic standpoint (if it works like I think it does)

Set-Up

Guise with Lemme See That and X-Treme! in hand

Bunker with a fully loaded Omni-Cannon

Greatest Legacy on team

Villain you wish to annihalate (I pictured Iron Legacy for this one)

 

On Guise's turn, he plays X-Treme, then using his power plays Lemme See That and borrow's the Omni-cannon (which should still keep all the cards under it since it doesn't leave Bunker's play area, Guise's card just goes next to it). Then on Greatest Legacy's turn, he uses Gung-Ho to give Guise a power, which allows him to fire the Omni-Cannon (since Guise is currently borrowing it and its text) with Irreducible and Irredirectable damage, potentially one shotting the villain with no real danger.

 

So in terms of what this looks like, Guise runs off and comes back in a power suit of his own, grabs Bunkers Omni-Cannon and whacks someone with it, then Grandpa Legacy tells him to shoot it, at which point Guise makes some clever one-liner and shoots the Omni-Cannon to destroy the current threat to the plot. Then Guise plays air guitar with his giant mech suit and the Omni-Cannon and everyone appears mildly irritated with his shenanigans.

silopolis
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kreistor wrote:

I only used acronyms for cards already mentioned in this thread, or for decks in the original set and video game that everyone should recognize. I also identified which acronyms associated with which Hero Decks, making it easy to track them down if you don't know them. I gave the necessary context anyone needed to find the information they needed quickly and easily. "Legacy had IP and SOS." So where do you look for IP and SOS? Not rocket science.

More time and effort has been spent explaining why you chose to go with the initials/acronyms than would have been spent making them a little more viewer-friendly in the first place. I have played Legacy a bunch of times, and while I know what IP is, I haven't a clue what SOS could be. I'd have to wait until I go home and look at my cards or my Kindle app, or try to find a Legacy card list online, to understand what you're talking about. Now, in writing that sentence, I'f determinted that you must mean Surge of Strength, but it took me that long to figure that out, having played Legacy dozens of times. If you pull out initialisms from Setback, Guise, the Scholar, or even the Sentinels (which I've probably played a dozens times, as well), I'd be comepletely clueless and largely unable to participate in teh discussion without going off and researching what you might have been talking about and STILL having a chance of jumping to the wrong conclusion. This is a message board people go to to enjoy chatting about one of their favorite cartoon supoerhero card games. If we have to go searching for our cards or a card list to understand what you're saying, then the communication is not clear enough.

That said:

I love Guise; my wife uses him to great effect. She stole Mr. Fixer's Jack Handle and did insane amounts of damage. I couldn't even tell you what she did at this point, but I was playing Fixer and was left with not much to do on my turn, and I wasn't even mad at her. ;) We tend to put him at the end of the turn order, and he keeps doing things that make me look over an imagine him just standing there posing like Hans and Franz.

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silopolis wrote:

That said:I love Guise; my wife uses him to great effect. She stole Mr. Fixer's Jack Handle and did insane amounts of damage. I couldn't even tell you what she did at this point, but I was playing Fixer and was left with not much to do on my turn, and I wasn't even mad at her. ;) We tend to put him at the end of the turn order, and he keeps doing things that make me look over an imagine him just standing there posing like Hans and Franz.

Guise must be a regular mechanic since often he "borrows" Mr Fixer's tools a lot.   For turn order I find it only really matter if you are dealing with lots of Ongoing destruction from the environment or villain.  In which case, like I said in the guide, you play him first so he gets the most use out of Super Ultra Kawaii!! and Blantant Reference.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
silopolis
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bullfroggy95 wrote:

I just thought of a hilarious way to do a ton of damage with a great thematic standpoint (if it works like I think it does)

Set-UpGuise with Lemme See That and X-Treme! in hand

Bunker with a fully loaded Omni-Cannon

Greatest Legacy on teamVillain you wish to annihalate (I pictured Iron Legacy for this one) 

On Guise's turn, he plays X-Treme, then using his power plays Lemme See That and borrow's the Omni-cannon (which should still keep all the cards under it since it doesn't leave Bunker's play area, Guise's card just goes next to it). Then on Greatest Legacy's turn, he uses Gung-Ho to give Guise a power, which allows him to fire the Omni-Cannon (since Guise is currently borrowing it and its text) with Irreducible and Irredirectable damage, potentially one shotting the villain with no real danger. 

So in terms of what this looks like, Guise runs off and comes back in a power suit of his own, grabs Bunkers Omni-Cannon and whacks someone with it, then Grandpa Legacy tells him to shoot it, at which point Guise makes some clever one-liner and shoots the Omni-Cannon to destroy the current threat to the plot. Then Guise plays air guitar with his giant mech suit and the Omni-Cannon and everyone appears mildly irritated with his shenanigans.

You just gave me another idea, which is a derivative work of yours! (Lemme See That! Yes, I'm That Guy!)

It's more or less the same, but with Unity in the Old Legs position!

So Bunker goes to load his Omni-Cannon but finds it missing! Meanwhile, Guise is there with a bandanna and a cigar, holding Bunker's Omni-Cannon slung about his waist. He chews the cigar and says, with an old Southern Colonel accent, "Hold my beer and watch this." He tries to fire, and it doesn't work. He looks rather perturbed, and Unity sneaks in from the side and make a wee modification (Hasty Augmentation), allowing Guise to fire the cannon even better than Bunker could! Guise fires, obliterates, and tosses the smoking, now-empty Omni-Cannon back to Bunker, unaware that Unity ever did anything.

 

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Something fun we pulled off:

Vs. Voss, Haka plays Savage Mana, Guise copies it, then plays barbarian.  Writhe hits Guise with Blackout, Guise wipes 8 minions, all go under Uh, Yeah.  Guise borrows Crowbars, copies PW Fanatic's base power, and uses Savage Mana to hit Voss, then uses the second hit on Writhe, redirect to Voss.

We kind of stmbled into it with me wanting to blackout Guise with Barbarian in play, my B-i-L thinking of Savage Mana, and the sudden realization of Crowbars sealing it.

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phantaskippy wrote:

Something fun we pulled off:Vs. Voss, Haka plays Savage Mana, Guise copies it, then plays barbarian.  Writhe hits Guise with Blackout, Guise wipes 8 minions, all go under Uh, Yeah.  Guise borrows Crowbars, copies PW Fanatic's base power, and uses Savage Mana to hit Voss, then uses the second hit on Writhe, redirect to Voss.We kind of stmbled into it with me wanting to blackout Guise with Barbarian in play, my B-i-L thinking of Savage Mana, and the sudden realization of Crowbars sealing it.

Hmm, maybe I misunderstood something then.  I thought that per the recent clarifications made due to programming the digital game, this line "For the second instance of damage, Dual Crowbars is only restricted from selecting the target that was the final result of the first instance of damage (after all redirects)." meant that you couldn't redirect the second hit of the crowbars to damage the target of the first hit of the crowbars - i.e. that Dual Crowbars is intended to hit two distinct targets regardless of redirects.  If it only means that whichever target the first hit finally struck can't be the initial (pre-redirect) target of the second hit, that's fine, I'll just need to clarify that again for my usual group.

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Azqa wrote:
 If it only means that whichever target the first hit finally struck can't be the initial (pre-redirect) target of the second hit, that's fine, I'll just need to clarify that again for my usual group.

This is correct

"Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?"

- Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

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silopolis wrote:

 
kreistor wrote:
I only used acronyms for cards already mentioned in this thread, or for decks in the original set and video game that everyone should recognize. I also identified which acronyms associated with which Hero Decks, making it easy to track them down if you don't know them. I gave the necessary context anyone needed to find the information they needed quickly and easily. "Legacy had IP and SOS." So where do you look for IP and SOS? Not rocket science.
More time and effort has been spent explaining why you chose to go with the initials/acronyms than would have been spent making them a little more viewer-friendly in the first place. I have played Legacy a bunch of times, and while I know what IP is, I haven't a clue what SOS could be. I'd have to wait until I go home and look at my cards or my Kindle app, or try to find a Legacy card list online, to understand what you're talking about. Now, in writing that sentence, I'f determinted that you must mean Surge of Strength, but it took me that long to figure that out, having played Legacy dozens of times. If you pull out initialisms from Setback, Guise, the Scholar, or even the Sentinels (which I've probably played a dozens times, as well), I'd be comepletely clueless and largely unable to participate in teh discussion without going off and researching what you might have been talking about and STILL having a chance of jumping to the wrong conclusion. This is a message board people go to to enjoy chatting about one of their favorite cartoon supoerhero card games. If we have to go searching for our cards or a card list to understand what you're saying, then the communication is not clear enough.

 
IP and SOS specifically also have the problem that they already have well-known meanings. I can't read SOS as anything other than Save our Souls. It will never ever mean Surge of Strength to me because it already means Save Our Souls, and I bet I'm not the only one to have that strong association. IP is Internet Protocol.
 
These are even more confusing than other acronyms/initialisms.

Just assume I'm always doing that.

Damn it, Ronway!

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IP = Intellectual Property


Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-Robert E. Howard, "The Tower of the Elephant"

silopolis
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Pydro wrote:

IP = Intellectual Property

That's where my mind was going with IP, as well. It took me a while, but not as long as SOS did.

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Kind of amazed that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXlvy3sTTBk hasn't come up yet... :)

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silopolis wrote:
Pydro wrote:
IP = Intellectual Property

That's where my mind was going with IP, as well. It took me a while, but not as long as SOS did.

That too.

My initial thought was Insula Primalis though, so apparently context does count a little for me. But after I dismissed that it took forever to get to Inspiring Presence. Far more effort than I wanted to spend, anyway.

I think I'd have got Surge of Strength quicker if it was written SoS rather than SOS.


Just assume I'm always doing that.

Damn it, Ronway!

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Edited the guide a bit after reviewing it since I've posted the link to this on BGG as well.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
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Added an update for Santa Guise.


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
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Powerhound_2000 wrote:

Second, the face down cards can only be destroyed by a villain through Apocolypse.

Villain wise, Miss Information's Threat to the President and Explosion in the Lab can also destroy face-down cards.

Edit: And GloomWeaver's Sable Pin.

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I thought there might a few I missed Apocolypse was the main one that came to mind.   I'll add that.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
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Very nasty combo for Guise:

1. Team up with the Sentinels.

2. Have them play Sentinel Tactics.

3. Use Uh, Yeah, I'm That Guy to copy the Sentinels' Ongoings.  

4. Use Blatant Reference each round to trigger an extra power use.  

5. Win all the things.


"Deja-fu? You've heard of that?"
- Lu Tze, Sweeper, Thief of Time by Terry Pratchett

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Thanks added to the Shenanigans.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
Arcanist Lupus
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I think I'm getting a handle on all this hot and cold stuff!

 

Step 1:  Lemme See That on Jack Handle

Step 2:  Uh, Yeah, I'm that Guy copying Thermal Shockwave

Step 3:  Use Thermal Shockwave's power to deal 3 instances of1 cold damage to each non-hero target, then deal X fire damage to each target where X is the amount of cold damage you just dealt.  In optimal conditions, you can deal 3*N+3 damage to each of N targets.

 

Step 3 is rather tricky, since getting two cards in play usually requires Guise's power use.  So you may need someone like AA or PW Fanatic to grant a power use to Guise.

 

For optimal conditions, combine with Guise the Barbarian to deal up to 9*N+11 damage to each target.  (Probably less though, as lesser targets will die before you deal them all the cold damage, reducing the amount of fire damage to deal.  For best results, use Fixed Point.


"Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?"

- Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

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Unfortunately Um, Yeah I'm that guy only copies the hero's base power, so it can't copy Thermal Shockwave. 

 

Sky-Scraper's Concussive Clap on the other hand... 2 Damage to all non-hero targets for as many non-hero targets are in play. Even more if Guise is Galvanized or otherwise boosted.

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Ario wrote:

Unfortunately Um, Yeah I'm that guy only copies the hero's base power, so it can't copy Thermal Shockwave.  Sky-Scraper's Concussive Clap on the other hand... 2 Damage to all non-hero targets for as many non-hero targets are in play. Even more if Guise is Galvanized or otherwise boosted.

You're thinking of I Can Do That Too!  Uh, Yeah, I'm That Guy copies ongoings.

"Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?"

- Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

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I believe the way Jack Handle works would result in "Deals up to three targets 1 cold damage" being changed to "Deals each non-hero target 1 cold damage."

We'll have to see when he hits the video game, but from the conversations I've had I believe that is how it goes.

If I'm right, every time you see an amount and type, no matter how few or many targets it would hit it gets changed to all non-hero targets, so Squall and Jack Handle would be no different than just copying Squall, Thermal (first part) and Assault Rifle would both turn three targets into all non-hero targets, while Exorcism or Pride and Prejudice would be much better.

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Arcanist Lupus wrote:

 

Ario wrote:
Unfortunately Um, Yeah I'm that guy only copies the hero's base power, so it can't copy Thermal Shockwave.  Sky-Scraper's Concussive Clap on the other hand... 2 Damage to all non-hero targets for as many non-hero targets are in play. Even more if Guise is Galvanized or otherwise boosted.

 

You're thinking of I Can Do That Too!  Uh, Yeah, I'm That Guy copies ongoings.

 

Yes, of course I am. I really shouldn't try to remember things without reference material.

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Arcanist Lupus wrote:

For best results, use Fixed Point.

That's the solution to a lot of things.   More likely to do this though would require someone else granting Guise a power use.   Instead of taking Jack Handle out you could use Total Beefcake instead which isn't quite as good but prevents you from hitting yourself still.  I'll add this to the list and it has the added bonus of using one of my other favorite heroes in Absolute Zero.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
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Powerhound_2000 wrote:

 

Arcanist Lupus wrote:
For best results, use Fixed Point.

 

That's the solution to a lot of things.   More likely to do this though would require someone else granting Guise a power use.   Instead of taking Jack Handle out you could use Total Beefcake instead which isn't quite as good but prevents you from hitting yourself still.  I'll add this to the list and it has the added bonus of using one of my other favorite heroes in Absolute Zero.  

Or, for humor value, use I Can Do that Too! to let Guise use a power that grants Guise a power use.  (ICDTT can't let Guise use Thermal Shockwave, but it can let him use Greatest Legacy's power to grant Guise a power use, which then could be used to activate Thermal Shockwave)

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Dandolo
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One more Guise trick I like:
Fastest Guise Alive:
Unity plays Scrap Metal and returns a Golem to her hand.
Guise plays let me see that on scrap metal and returns swift bot to his hand.
The next turn Guise plays Swift bot using scrap metal's effect.

Powerhound_2000
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That is pretty neat since it would give Guise the extra play and card draw but feels like a mean trick to pull on Unity


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
Trajector
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Aha, nice. Though:

Dandolo wrote:

The next turn Guise plays Swift bot using scrap metal's effect.

Guise has so many ways to play a card outside his play phase that the last part is sort of optional.

Martin Tenbones
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Digital player here, just unlocked Santa Guise!

My first thoughts: Santa Guise  offers one of the most efficient card draw and play engines in the game, with cards drawn and flipped = (powers spent on Gifts-mas -H) *H, where H = number of heroes.  Given that he also has a harder time applying multiple form cards to himself than vanilla Guise, he is a natural combination with Argent Adept, as Inventive Preparation and Alacritious Subdominant allow loads of out of turn plays and Vernal Sonata allows Guise to recur vitally important cards like Best Card Ever! and I Can Do That, Too! (which is amazing with Argent Adept), while AA is perhaps the most grateful of all heroes to have his opening game dramatically advanced in speed. 

I've been running him with teams slotted as follows:

1. America's Greatest Legacy

2. Team Leader Tachyon or Scholar (or Dark Visionary in certain MUs)

3. Santa Guise

4. Argent Adept 

This way I can build gifts with AGL and Santa for a couple turns and then right before AA's third turn have AA flip 5 cards, which greatly accelerates his buildup, at which point AGL goes from building up Gifts-mas to activating AA.  (Inspiring Supertonic can make this go faster, if present.)   

Scholar is here for the Vernal Sonata / Don't Dismiss Anything Combo, as well as Proverbs and Axioms (which, with a partnership with AGL, can build and flip gifts in the same turn), and Gifts-mas really helps the Scholar move quickly to the "I have my whole deck in hand and am cycling Proverbs and Axioms and Don't Dismiss Anything as fast as Inventive Preparation and my own play speed will allow"   I am extremely grateful for the app when this happens, as I frequently lose track of whose turn it is given how many actions I'm playing.  He also, with Argent Adept and Rhapsody of Vigor, opens up Guise & Scholar's Mortal Form to Energy / Um, Yeah, I'm That Guy combo (mentioned earlier with Tempest in place of Argent Adept), which is even stronger with Syncopated Onslaught.

Despite these extremely strong options, though, I'm not sure Scholar is better for Santa Guise than Team Leader Tachyon in a general sense.  Guise really likes cards, and having Fleet of Foot and Team Leader (both in their own right and as tools for other characters to dig for their draw cards) really helps.  Still sorting through it.

Other tricks:

- you can grab an instrument with Lemme See That, activate Inspiring Supertonic on Argent Adept, and re-activate that same instrument using Argent Adept.  Wonderful if you grab the Lyra and double-dip Inspiring Supertonic and Inventive Preparation.  

- Heroic Intervention + Uh, Yeah, I'm That Guy makes all characters immune to damage from all sources, including Proverbs and Axioms.  (As does Heroic Intervention and Alchemical Redirection)

- Um, Yeah, I'm That Guy on Legacy with Inspiring Presence and Surge of Strength really helps Guise's numerous small damage outputs add up, and also synergizes well with plinky little damage from Mortal Form to Energy.  While I know Fixer offers potentially much stronger options for pure damage, Legacy is a really nice combo of damage boost, tanking, card draw, and lockdown.  Also, every time you copy Legacy while Inspiring Presence is up, everyone heals for 1.  

   
Powerhound_2000
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Yeah if you get multiple out of turn power uses Santa Guise can be potent for sure.   

The tips you generally list are ones either Guise can do.   With Santa Guise I find using Lemme See That.. or Uh, Yeah, I'm That Guy! used more for the power rather than just potential damage buffs.   

 


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
MigrantP
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With Vernal Sonata and Reclaim from the Deep you can have some control over what presents you're getting, too.


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Martin Tenbones
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Yeah, I'd agree those are any Guise tips.  I mean, they share all the same cards, so for me it's a question more of how you build a team around them to advance the strengths and compensate for the weaknesses of the different Guise powers.  But those are tricks I learned with a party composition selected around Santa Guise.  

I believe vanilla Guise would benefit much more from Team Leader Tachyon that the Scholar leaves the competition entirely, and I don't think he requires Argent Adept, while Santa Guise seems inextricably welded to Argent Adept and America's Greatest Legacy to me.  Although America's Greatest Legacy is a fantastic pair with Argent Adept, Gung-Ho doesn't help Argent Adept much in the early game before he gets set up.  Santa Guise complements that duo perfectly, happily taking Gung-Ho activations to get Argent Adept set up faster, and his gifts also get Legacy set up faster in order to be a worthy target of Um, Yeah, I'm That Guy!

So far, I typically establish a 4-5 gift pile for each character, pop them all in turn, and then use Lemme See That or Um, Yeah in order to borrow other powers, as I'm trying to have my whole deck in hand for AA and the Scholar and gifts interfere with that.  So unless I get a really strong opening I don't usually see Vernal Sonata interacting with gifts.  

 

 

Trajector
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Martin Tenbones wrote:

- you can grab an instrument with Lemme See That, activate Inspiring Supertonic on Argent Adept, and re-activate that same instrument using Argent Adept.  Wonderful if you grab the Lyra and double-dip Inspiring Supertonic and Inventive Preparation.


I'm confused; I thought Lemme See That prevented the original player from access to the grabbed instrument. I know you're on the app but I'm not...
Matchstickman
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You are correct Trajector, only Guise has access to the Equipment card while Lemme See That is out.


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Powerhound_2000
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Yeah Argent Adept shouldn't be able to activate the same instrument for two reasons.   One it is controlled by Guise and second since that power is in use it can't be used that same turn again.


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
Martin Tenbones
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AA can't activate that instrument as the first power on his turn, but if he uses he uses Inspiring Supertonic he can target it with subsequent power activations.  Then I think the "a character can't use the same power more than once on a given turn" rule kicks in and it's different characters activating the same power. 

But I learned the rules from the app instead of a rule book, so the precise wording may be different. 

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