Unstable Kismet and Tormented Ally Infinitor

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Adamnw251
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Unstable Kismet and Tormented Ally Infinitor

Has anyone gotten their Oversized Villain Cards that can comment on these fights? I've been dying to know how they work, especially after seeing their info pop up on the SOTM wiki. I'm super excited to see how the new Kismet plays.


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Probably will be another week for me sorry


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My stuff says it is arriving friday, but who knows when I'd actually get time to play...

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I got mine yesterday, and I can tell you Infinitor's win condition is interesting. It's up to you guys if you want spoilers or not.


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I've seen the front side from the preview given earlier.  What I don't know is what happens when he flips.  


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Trajector
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Ah, so they ARE going out! I had only one shipping notice and I got Villains yesterday, but no oversized cards with it. I was wondering.

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I'll admit, I didn't expect to receive them with my Villains, but then again I didn't expect to pick my package up 2-3 days earlier than estimated.

When I get home I'll type up Infinitor's flip side, or see about getting them on the spreadsheet at least.


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I ordered my villains and oversized cards seep rate I got my copy of villains last week looking forward to receiving my copy of the oversized cards hopefully soon no notification yet

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I got my copy of Villains and Oversized cards this afternoon


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Bummer! I just checked my order and while this whole time I thought I had both Villains and the oversized cards, I didn't add the oversized cards to my order in the first place. D'oh...time to visit the store again...

Killswitch
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So, as promised here's Infinitor's flip side.

Infinitor: Overcome by Manifestations

90 HP

Gameplay: When Infinitor is flipped to this side, restore his HP to 90 and destroy all cards under his villain character card. Then, Infinitor deals each non-hero target X energy damage and each hero target regains X HP, where X = the number of cards destroyed this way.

Whenever a manifestation would enter play, Infinitor gains 4 HP and destroys that manifestation.

At the end of the villain turn, Infinitor deals each non-villain target 2 energy damage. Any target dealt damage this way deals itself 2 irreducible psychic damage.

(Advanced): Manifestations are indestructible.


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Man... where did everyone see the front side? I'm so curious! Can't wait to get my copy.

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Adamnw251
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That looks interesting.  It might almost to be best to burn down Infinitor as soon as possible in order to flip him.

 

That also might be easier than base Infinitor (despite the obvious complexity boost).  The worst part about him was always the manifestations.  Now you can eliminate them from the fight.

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That Infinitor looks really interesting.  I know he had some cards that hurt everything but I didn't think it was very many.  Heroes that tamper with the villain deck would help (including villains can't play cards).  The advanced seems...  weird.  He'd kill off the manifestations much faster that way, though his damage cards that hurt heroes would hurt more.  If you prevent him from flipping, I think the advanced would actually be easier and faster than non-advanced.

 

I could have sworn that there were hero cards that could make another hero attack something.  I think Skyscraper has something that would work but it is a one-shot.  Can anyone think anything else that would work?  Using a power or playing a card wouldn't.

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Killswitch wrote:

http://i.imgur.com/s0Xnukp.jpgHere you go!

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Agent Bon wrote:
The advanced seems...  weird.  He'd kill off the manifestations much faster that way,

If you're talking about the front side advanced text it's damage dealt to Infinitor, not by him. He would flip a lot faster.


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Killswitch wrote:

So, as promised here's Infinitor's flip side.Infinitor: Overcome by Manifestations90 HPGameplay: When Infinitor is flipped to this side, restore his HP to 90 and destroy all cards under his villain character card. Then, Infinitor deals each non-hero target X energy damage and each hero target regains X HP, where X = the number of cards destroyed this way.Whenever a manifestation would enter play, Infinitor gains 4 HP and destroys that manifestation.At the end of the villain turn, Infinitor deals each non-villain target 2 energy damage. Any target dealt damage this way deals itself 2 irreducible psychic damage.(Advanced): Manifestations are indestructible.

So I'm wondering what happens to the manifestations under him when playing advanced.   When they go under his card on the front side it doesn't say they lose their text or anything and so would they still be considered manifestations when he flips?   If so, those manifestations would just be stuck under him.   Regardless, having him flipped seems bad for the heroes especially on advanced since he still gains health and that manifestation stays in play.  

Also I would have thought you would need to flip him again so you could possibly redeem him.  


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Matchstickman
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Cards under other cards always have no text unless they specifically state otherwise (e.g Title cards), other than still being from a specific deck. So they are villain cards but not Manifestations and can be destroyed.


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I think that's what the alternate win condition on the front is for. It's like a reverse Dreamer situation. You have to try and save him on the front side, where everyone is fighting the manifestations together, even Infinitor. Failing that, the last resort is to defeat him when he's being overtaken by madness.

I think it's brilliant. Can't wait to give him a test run this weekend.


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Ok I just wanted to be sure.  


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Killswitch wrote:

I think that's what the alternate win condition on the front is for. It's like a reverse Dreamer situation. You have to try and save him on the front side, where everyone is fighting the manifestations together, even Infinitor. Failing that, the last resort is to defeat him when he's being overtaken by madness.I think it's brilliant. Can't wait to give him a test run this weekend.

I'd still like a chance to still redeem him even after the flip instead of pummeling him.  


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Trajector
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So on the front side, everybody can win, but on the back side the only way to defeat Infinitor is to incapacitate him and he STILL helps the heroes?

Interesting! I always love when a villain takes a completely different direction.

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Matchstickman wrote:

 

Agent Bon wrote:
The advanced seems...  weird.  He'd kill off the manifestations much faster that way,

 

If you're talking about the front side advanced text it's damage dealt to Infinitor, not by him. He would flip a lot faster.

 

Ah, I didn't read that closely enough.  Good catch.

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So, my group played against promo Infinitor. And we've decided it's absolutely nuts to try and win on his "tormented ally" side. Given the amount of manifestations that keep appearing, it seems awfully futile to expect to keep them at bay while he finishes them off one-by-one. I'm sure it's possible, but it seems much easier to force a flip.


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Can we get some spoilers for Unstable Kismet? I played against her again today (because it had been a while) and pretty wiped the floor with her. I would love to find out what the new one is like!

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Killswitch wrote:

So, my group played against promo Infinitor. And we've decided it's absolutely nuts to try and win on his "tormented ally" side. Given the amount of manifestations that keep appearing, it seems awfully futile to expect to keep them at bay while he finishes them off one-by-one. I'm sure it's possible, but it seems much easier to force a flip.

Here's a game where I won on his front side.

Ally Infinitor versus Santa Guise, Termi-Nation Absolute Zero, Termi-Nation Bunker, and Termi-Nation Unity in Omnitron-IV

Round 1

Infinitor starts with a Ocular Swarm, Lambent Reaper, Crushing Cage, and Twisted Miscreation in play. Crushing Cage goes next to Unity. Infinitor plays Recalescent Hellion. Infinitor deals 2 damage to Crushing Cage (2). Lambent Reaper deals 2 and 2 damage to Guise (21). Twisted Miscreation deals 4 damage to Unity (23). Recalescent Hellion deals 3 damage to Infinitor (24) and Bunker (23).

Guise uses Power 1 of It's Gift-mas Time!

Absolute Zero plays Onboard Module Installation and Cold Snap. Uses Violent Shivers.

Bunker plays Maintenance Unit. Uses Modulize to destroy Maintenance Unit, then plays and uses Auxiliary Power Source.

Crushing Cage deals 1 and 1 damage to Unity (21).

Omnitron-IV plays Resource Recycler.

Round 2

Infinitor plays Crushing Cage, onto Unity. Infinitor deals 2 damage to Crushing Cage 2 (2). Lambent Reaper deals 2 and 2 to Guise (17). Twisted Miscreation deals 6 damage to Absolute Zero (19). Recalescent Hellion deals 3 damage to Bunker (20) and Infinitor (21).

Guise uses Power 1 of It's Gift-mas Time!

Absolute Zero deals 2 damage to Crusing Cage 1 (0), Crushing Cage 2 (0), Twisted Miscreation (2), Lambent Reaper (2), Ocular Swarm (2), and Recalescent Hellion (2). Plays Focused Apertures. Uses Violent Shivers.

Bunker plays Maintenance Unity. Uses Modulize, destroying Maintenance Unit, plays Recharge Mode.

Each Crushing Cage deals 1 and 1 to Unity (17).

Resource Recycler moves Maintenance Unit into play. Plays Internal Defense Grid. Internal Defense Grid deals 2 damage to Guise (15), Unity (15), and Infinitor (19). Deals 1 damage to Bunker (19), Crushing Cage 1 (-1), Crushing Cage 2 (-1), Twisted Miscreation (1), Lambent Reaper (1), Ocular Swarm (1), and Recalescent Hellion (1). Deals 4 damage to Absolute Zero (15).

Round 3

Infinitor plays, Whispers of Oblivion, dealing 1 damage to Crushing Cage 1 (-2), Crushing Cage 2 (-2), Twisted Miscreation (0), Lambent Reaper (0), Ocular Swarm (0), and Recalescent Hellion (0), putting them under his Character Card.

Victory!!!

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Unless the text changed in the setup for the promo Infinitor it says to remove Crushing Cage from his deck.  


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The Burning Stickman
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Doesn't the front side say to remove all Crushing Cages from the game?

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Killswitch wrote:

So, my group played against promo Infinitor. And we've decided it's absolutely nuts to try and win on his "tormented ally" side. Given the amount of manifestations that keep appearing, it seems awfully futile to expect to keep them at bay while he finishes them off one-by-one. I'm sure it's possible, but it seems much easier to force a flip.

Your main hope is Machinations of a Madman and Whispers of Oblivion as it deals damage to everyone and so you want to get all the Manifestations low on health and hope he plays that to get more than just one Manifestation taken down at a time.  Otherwise if you can keep him from playing cards for multiple rounds that would work to take them down one at a time.  


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Powerhound_2000 wrote:

Unless the text changed in the setup for the promo Infinitor it says to remove Crushing Cage from his deck.  

Not sure if I missed it or I played it before they changed it to remove them. It doesn't really change much in the game I had, other than Unity might have actually been able to do something. 

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I scanned them and threw them up on the Promo's page of the wiki

 

http://sotm.wikidot.com/promos

 

edit: whoops. Uploaded the un-re-sized versions. Much better sizes now.


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Lynkfox, you are a living gift to the community.

I'm not sure how I feel about the new Kismet, though. It seems to me that her flipped side is much more dangerous than her front side, but she doesn't have many ways to flip by her own power. She would have to rely on the few cards in her deck that damage her talisman and the Environment deck to lend a hand, since the heroes would have no inclination to help her flip.

Besides that, I'm not sure what Kismet does once the hero with the Talisman bites it. There doesn't seem to be a clause to move it around afterwards beyond Kismet flipping twice, and so it looks like she'll spend quite a few turns not attacking anybody at that point.

On Infinitor, I'll echo the unlikelihood that you can save him before he flips. As far as I remember, his deck is designed to summon at least one Manifestation each turn, and he can usually only knock out one on his turn. Maybe he can get lucky and get good flips off of dead Ocular Swarms to do damage to a bunch at once, but without getting something like a damage boost from Legacy, it won't do much.

That doesn't mean it's the right move to flip him immediately, though; he's still slowing down the manifestations on his front side, and he can heal you after flipping. I'd say the early game should be treated as a time for the heroes to get set up, with Infinitor's health being treated as a timer. I also feel like the fight might be kind of boring outside of Advanced, but that's because I find most single-target villains kind of boring, to be honest.


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I played a game against Promo Infinitor last night.  It was a lot of fun, if a little harrowing.

Turn order was: Prime Wardens Argent Adept (Me), Dark Watch NightMist, Santa Guise, and Termi-Nation Unity, at the Celestial Tribunal.

Infinitor started with 2 Lambent Reapers, an Ocular Swarm, and a Recalescent Hellion.  He then played  Machinations into another Reaper and another Hellion.  Next thing we knew, Guise was in single digits.

I chained two Arcane Cadences, then had NightMist draw a card.  NightMist Oblivioned all the Manifestations to 0.  Guise started Giftmas, and Unity Flash Forged a Raptor Bot into play via Reconfigure.  The Tribunal put a trial on one of the Ocular Swarms.

Infinitor then dropped another Manifestation via Machinations, ate one of the reapers, and Guise dropped to 6.

I played another song, then gave Unity a card.  NightMist gave me cards, Guise Giftmassed again, and Unity dropped Stealth Bot.

The Tribunal brought out an AI.

Infinitor cleared all the 0-health Manifestations, then dropped another two before eating the second Hellion, leaving him with 2 4-health Manifestations in play.

I dropped Counterpoint Bullwark and started giving Infinitor and Stealth Bot DR.  NightMist dropped a few relics, and Guise didn't really do anthing.  Unity cleared the health off the last two Manifestations.

The Tribunal did nothing of note.

Infinitor dropped another Manifestation, then cleared one of the 0-health ones.  Stealth Bot soaked damage like a champ.

More songs, more instruments, more relics, and more Gifts.  Another Manifestation drops to 0 on Unity's turn, and a Tribunal AI gets nuked.

Tribunal calls The Visionary as Representative of Earth.

Infinitor flips another Manifestation, then clears one of the 0-health ones.

A rather liberal interpretation of the rules has Guise drop "Uh, Yeah I'm that Guy" giving me a high-five to copy all my songs as one ongoing.  Hilarity ensues.  Stealth Bot has DR 5 by the time I'm done.  We clear the health from his last Manifestation in play.

Tribunal does nothing relevant.

With 6 cards left in his deck, Infinitor plays Machinations of a Madman, flips the LAST Manifestation in his deck, then purges the 0-health one, leaving him with ONE FREAKING MANIFESTATION AGAIN.

Everyone basically dumps ~20 damage onto that one Manifestation.

Tribunal does nothing.

Infinitor clears the last Manifestation and we win!

 

There were so many points during the game where all we needed was one of Infinitor's AOE cards to win or for him to do nothing, and he kept flipping a new Manifestation.  It was hilarious if a little aggrivating.


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Well, he CAN'T do nothing, so there's that. He WILL play one manifestation (or more) per turn until he runs out. It's just how his deck is designed.


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Yes, but I mean all he needed to do was whiff a Machinations or not have a Manifestation on top and we would have won significantly earlier than we did.  Granted, he didn't flip that game, so I imagine it would have gone quite differently had we needed to switch to beatdown, as Unity was our only real damage dealer.


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I've won against Ally Infinitor the first time I played against him. We kept all of the Manifestations as low health, and it felt really bottlenecked at first, but then he played on of his one shots that deals one damage to every target, and suddenly the only thing left was two ocular swarms. So you just have to weaken all of the manifestations and then deck control to get one of the cards in his deck that will deal the AOE (which is 5 of them in a deck of 22 after the cages are gone). You just have to endure the manifestations until one of those, and it's a pretty downhill battle.

I haven't tried promo Kismet yet, but the game I played against Infinitor was really fun


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So Ally Infinitor's front side is both a villain target as well as a hero target? It says that it is a hero target, but it does not say that it isn't a villain target.

Unless there's a rule somewhere that says a target cannot be both a hero and villain target?


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He's a hero target, which means he's not a villain target.

This enables him to be damaged by the manifestations.

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Are you sure about that? If they were mutually exclusive, his front side would just say "hero" in the keyword bar.

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I read it that he is just a hero target for purposes of being hit by manifestations and the environment which might otherwise only hit hero targets.  However, in Rook City he would still deal damage from Scum and Villainy or to Dr Termata and Tony Taurus on his front side. 


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I don't see how you could be both. That seems to make it unreasonably hard, since everyone on all three sides will be hitting him.

Stands to reason that if he's a Hero target, he can't be a Villain target.

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I never said he was a villain target but he still has to be considered a villain character card.  


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Could it be that they just don't get damaged, then? I mean, what happens if, say, you're fighting Omnitron in Rook City, you take it out, and the game's still going because there's a Device in play?

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In that case you don't get any damage from Scum and Villainy.  Same as Miss Information on her front side because there is no villain character card with HP.  In the case of this promo Infinitor he would deal damage because he is a villain character card and has HP. 


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Scum and Villainy would cause Infinitor to deal himself damage, since the Villain Character Card (Infinitor) deals each Hero Target (Also Infinitor) damage.

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Powerhound_2000 wrote:

In that case you don't get any damage from Scum and Villainy.  Same as Miss Information on her front side because there is no villain character card with HP.  In the case of this promo Infinitor he would deal damage because he is a villain character card and has HP. 

Unless this is clarified in the Fireside chats or the app, this doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't or shouldn't happen. If that were true, the environment would never deal damage from effects such as PW Tempest, since there isn't always a source of damage from a card with HP. Not saying I'm refuting an official ruling, but there's an argument for why it wouldn't happen.

Thematically, you could argue that Miss Information is dealing the heroes damage, but they have no idea who's behind the attack.


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Killswitch wrote:

 

Powerhound_2000 wrote:
In that case you don't get any damage from Scum and Villainy.  Same as Miss Information on her front side because there is no villain character card with HP.  In the case of this promo Infinitor he would deal damage because he is a villain character card and has HP. 

 

Unless this is clarified in the Fireside chats or the app, this doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't or shouldn't happen. If that were true, the environment would never deal damage from effects such as PW Tempest, since there isn't always a source of damage from a card with HP. Not saying I'm refuting an official ruling, but there's an argument for why it wouldn't happen.Thematically, you could argue that Miss Information is dealing the heroes damage, but they have no idea who's behind the attack.

The Rook City cards specify the Villain Character Card with the highest HP. If something doesn't have HP, that would disqualify it from acting.
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Killswitch wrote:

 

Powerhound_2000 wrote:
In that case you don't get any damage from Scum and Villainy.  Same as Miss Information on her front side because there is no villain character card with HP.  In the case of this promo Infinitor he would deal damage because he is a villain character card and has HP. 

 

Unless this is clarified in the Fireside chats or the app, this doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't or shouldn't happen. If that were true, the environment would never deal damage from effects such as PW Tempest, since there isn't always a source of damage from a card with HP. Not saying I'm refuting an official ruling, but there's an argument for why it wouldn't happen.Thematically, you could argue that Miss Information is dealing the heroes damage, but they have no idea who's behind the attack.

PW Tempest doesn't specify an environment target or card with but that the environment deals him damage.   That's why you can't use Haka to intercept the damage what Enduring Intercession as it is just stated as the environment and not any environment card.  


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mwc146 wrote:
The Rook City cards specify the Villain Character Card with the highest HP. If something doesn't have HP, that would disqualify it from acting.

I don't have my set in front of me at the moment, so I'm going off the spreadsheet. So unless it's misworded, it currently reads:

At the end of the Environment turn, play the top card of the Villain deck.
At the start of the Environment turn, the Villain Character card deals each Hero Target (H) minus 1 Melee Damage. Then, destroy this card.

Powerhound 2000 wrote:
PW Tempest doesn't specify an environment target or card with but that the environment deals him damage.   That's why you can't use Haka to intercept the damage what Enduring Intercession as it is just stated as the environment and not any environment card.

Exactly, that's why I made the comparison to "The Villain Character card." Again, this whole line of thought is moot if what I'm reading isn't correctly typed.


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Here is a picture from the video game of Scum and Villainy

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1hhs6szhedm6kce/Photo%20Jan%2011%2C%204%2032%2051%20PM.png?dl=0

it does specify villain character card with the highest HP


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 

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