DC's All New 52 (spoilers maybe)

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WriterRyan
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Stunned silence, perhaps?


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meakatommy
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Stunned silence at the realization that he will never want anything else for the rest of his life as much as he wants those pics.


Poop can wait, Time Crisis is now!

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meakatommy wrote:
Stunned silence at the realization that he will never want anything else for the rest of his life as much as he wants those pics.

More like my response got lost somewhere between typing it and it getting posted. Oh well so much for me being anywhere near clever. :P

Besides unless Tommy is a hermaphrodite I don't think he could pull off a She-Hulk costume more like a Hulk costume and a hairy one at that if his statement was to be believed. ;)

Also I would not like pics of that I like to keep my food down thank you very much.

Back to your regularly scheduled hazing. Enjoy!


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TheJayMann wrote:

The Conscience wrote:

meakatommy wrote:

The Conscience wrote:

Tamar wrote:

The Conscience wrote:
I would totally pay to see these costumes. She-Hulk would be awesome btw I don't care if your 3' tall or 7' tall it would just be geektastic. Alls I can say is PICTURES please!!!!!

I would totally get paid to make these costumes!  Feel free to send money to paypal account... :P

Wouldn't that just be the Hulk? :P

Hmmmmm... must resist temptation to give random people money for cool ideas. Arrrg the force is strong in this one must use all my powers to resist her. Damn that didn't work. Oh well I guess a pretty face is my weakness. :P

Heck, if you're paying people to wear em, I will too. How do you feel about fat, hairy, male she-hulk?

Was there supposed to be a response in there somewhere?

It was written such that it looked like part of a previous quote -- 'wouldn't that just be the hulk'


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Male she-hulk.  However, he doesn't go into detail as to whether pre-op or post-op, nor which direction.


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I like to keep everyone guessing.


Poop can wait, Time Crisis is now!

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A masculine-identified cis man could totally wear a She-Hulk costume - Hulk wears booty shorts whereas She-Hulk wears a leotard. We're talking totally different outfits. Plus, let's be real - a fat hairy man would be equally fat and hairy in booty shorts as in a leotard. Not that there's anything wrong with fat and hairy. Just sayin'. :)


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So I stopped by my local comic book shop yesterday to pick up some comics. I left with Green Lantern #1 and a collection of a comic called Rotten. I was also going to get a copy of Justice League, but they were sold out. This month, I plan to also get Batman, maybe Dark Knight, Green Lantern Corps, Green Lantern: New Guardians, and The Flash, and then whittle it down to just a few titles for subsequent months. Anyone have any particular titles they feel I should add to this? I was also thinking about maybe picking up All Star Western or Swamp Thing.

Looking at the list of available series, I have some questions about the differences between some of them. For instance, can anyone explain the difference between Batman, Batman: The Dark Knight, and Detective Comics? What about between Action Comics and Superman?


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Adam
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Really, there are no differences, it's because those characters sell and they realize that they can get away with having several books on the shelf. They'll run different stories, but it's the same as the 14 Spider-man or Wolverine books - pick the one you like and just stick with that one or you'll end up bogged down by redundancy. The more I find out about the New 52, the less impressed I am. I've said it before, if you're going to reboot something, REBOOT IT. Start with the 2 or 3 main titles and branch out. The fact that there are Batgirl, Robin, and (Morrison's ridiculous Batman, Inc-inspired) Batwing comics is a source of frustration, because in my mind, Batman should get set up first before the spinoffs happen. Not to mention they put so much stock in Grant Morrison, who's time and time again proven himself a hack. At least they don't have him screwing up Marvel any more.

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That's good to know. I'll probably pick just one for each character in future months.

And I agree; Green Lantern was rather confusing, since it seems to have picked up right in the middle of an established universe with a fleshed-out backstory that I don't know. For what was advertised as a perfect jumping-on point for new readers, it seems awfully like any other new storyline within an ongoing series.


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Adam wrote:
Really, there are no differences, it's because those characters sell and they realize that they can get away with having several books on the shelf. They'll run different stories, but it's the same as the 14 Spider-man or Wolverine books - pick the one you like and just stick with that one or you'll end up bogged down by redundancy. The more I find out about the New 52, the less impressed I am. I've said it before, if you're going to reboot something, REBOOT IT. Start with the 2 or 3 main titles and branch out. The fact that there are Batgirl, Robin, and (Morrison's ridiculous Batman, Inc-inspired) Batwing comics is a source of frustration, because in my mind, Batman should get set up first before the spinoffs happen. Not to mention they put so much stock in Grant Morrison, who's time and time again proven himself a hack. At least they don't have him screwing up Marvel any more.

I agree that they should have cut down on the spin off crap. But I am kind of digging Morrison's Action Comics. Though it's still just in issue one, so who knows, maybe he will ruin it, it may just take him a few issues.


Poop can wait, Time Crisis is now!

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Updates! I greatly enjoyed Green Lantern, and plan to go back this weekend and pick up a few other titles, namely Justice League, Action Comics, Batman, and Swamp Thing. I've also ordered the first trade paperbacks of The Walking Dead, Invincible, Irredeemable, and Incorruptible, which I'm looking forward to.


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My main problem with Morrison's action comics is that he's making Superman act like Batman. Superman doesn't hold people off ledges or force them to do what he wants through intimidation. He goes out and tries to help without hurting anyone's feelings and gets beat up in the process. It's ok when Batman does it because he's a normal human and has to gain an advantage to beat people, but when you have 150 different powers including flight and LASER EYES, doing that stuff makes you a villain. Grant Morrison is an iconoclast. He professedly hates superheroes and that is completely apparent in his writing.

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SlenderTroll wrote:
Updates! I greatly enjoyed Green Lantern, and plan to go back this weekend and pick up a few other titles, namely Justice League, Action Comics, Batman, and Swamp Thing. I've also ordered the first trade paperbacks of The Walking Dead, Invincible, Irredeemable, and Incorruptible, which I'm looking forward to.

Good man, Invincible and The Walking Dead are great books.


Poop can wait, Time Crisis is now!

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This makes me really glad that I didn't bother to add Catwoman or Red Hood to my pull list. http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/22/starfire-catwoman-sex-superhero...  It also makes me want to buy Laura Hudson a drink and hang out with her and have awesome nerdy conversations.

Way to add another huge screw up to what could have been an awesome chance for change, writers and artists!


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Tamar, that's a really good article there. Personally though, any sex at all in comics and whatnot is awkward to me. I wouldn't want to be sitting on an el train next to a little kid and flip the page to reveal Batman and Catwoman gratuitously bumpin' uglies. And it's just so, so awkward when you walk in on your in-laws watching True Blood. Not to be prude or anything, but I think there's a time and place for sex, which isn't in every single piece of visual media ever.


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This is an ongoing problem with DC in general, and it's basically because of their attitude as a company. Their focus is creating icons and having those icons do things that are memorable for the sake of aesthetic that is catered to teen boys and shock value. On the DC side you've got Selina Kyle, and their portrayal of her acting as an "empowered woman" and "sexually liberated" is a tawdry, lewd and sensationalist sex-fest with their flagship character. On the Marvel side, they have a huge number of strong female characters, but let's go with She-Hulk. Shulkie has quite the number of hookups in her series, ranging from Thanos' brother to Juggernaut, but at no time is her ACTUAL sexual liberation treated as an excuse to plaster her lady bits over several pages of almost-porn. The most graphic thing you end up with is this, which is pretty tame. This is also why the last page of Detective Comics has Joker's skinned face nailed to a wall. No, thank you.

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Adam wrote:
This is also why the last page of Detective Comics has Joker's skinned face nailed to a wall. No, thank you.

Wow. Googled this and, well, no thanks. Also, they're rating these T?


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Adam wrote:
This is an ongoing problem with DC in general, and it's basically because of their attitude as a company.

I'd argue that It's an issue across the board.  In DC's defense they ALSO have amazingly wonderful characters like the Birds of Prey (not that I'm a huge Gail Simone fan girl or anything:P).  And Marvel has characters like Emma Frost.  While I'll make allowances for ridiculous costuming, I also think that if they really want to show that she's growing and a character and such, maybe they'd have her put a shirt on at least when she's in her official school mistress capacity. Personally this is my favorite of her costumes, but that's not exactly what you want to be lecturing students about breaking school windows with their powers in, you know? (Side note: thank you for putting actual thighs on her, second artist, but do you think maybe she could stand in a NON back breaking pose? o_O  Seriously, try to stand with your back arched like that. See how long you last.)


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I know we've all seen the male heroes drawn in ridiculous female hero costumes to prove a point, but has anyone just drawn drawn them in the ridiculous postures they get stuck in? I wanna see Wolverine looking all fierce while trying to touch his shoulder blades to his hips, too.


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WriterRyan
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Also, this is why I really like how >G handled Tachyon's design. In the lab, she actually dresses professionally. And when she's hero'ing it up, she's wearing a costume designed not to show off as much cleavage as possible but instead to be aerodynamic.


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Well, Emma Frost's current state is another thing you can pin to Grant Morrison. She used to look like this when she was teaching until he decided it more effectively kept students' attention(?) when she dressed like a stripper and went about wrecking homes. I agree that it's an across-the-board issue, but DC's much more guilty of it, was my point. For every Black Cat, Marvel has She-Hulk, Sue Storm, X-23, Maria Hill, Storm, Rogue, and myriad other positive, strong, and empowered female characters from different walks of life. DC's pretty much got Birds of Prey, Batgirl(sometimes), and Renee Montoya, though I'm not even sure she's the Question any more. Even Batwoman is a bad lesbian stereotype written so readers think about how hot girl-on-girl action is. And as much as I love Harley and Ivy, they're written pretty much the same way in the books when they show up.

And thank you, Ryan. While it's important to me my characters are attractive, I do try to remain practical about it.

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Adam wrote:
And as much as I love Harley and Ivy, they're written pretty much the same way in the books when they show up.

Harley and Ivy Forevah!!!!!!  Not that I'm biased or anything:P

I actually really like a lot of the portrayals I've seen of Harley and Ivy's relationship.  I think Paul Dini handles them well (not a huge shocker) and IT's been a while but I remember really loving Batman - Harley and Ivy.  I think Dini/Timm are good at showing them as (Yes, THAT kind of close :P), but it's almost always fun and playful and real feeling, and not just "hurhur lets make the girls kiss because it's hawt!".


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In my mind, Dini and Timm can do no wrong. I view the DC animated universe as canon and the comics as fanfic. It's that much better.

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Adam wrote:
This is also why the last page of Detective Comics has Joker's skinned face nailed to a wall. No, thank you.

And that's why I'm not getting anymore issues of Detective Comics. Also, I read it a couple of time, and I still have no idea what the story is about, or how it got to that.


Poop can wait, Time Crisis is now!

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So! Picked up Justice League, Action Comics, and Batman today. I was also going to grab Swamp Thing, but they were out. I was pretty unimpressed with the first two, but I loved Batman, and I'm quite excited for the next issue.I wasn't entirely sure what was going on in the first half, in the Asylum, though.

Also, anyone know what's up with the weird, glowy, cloaked purple lady? She's in every comic as far as I can tell, and it's very suspicious.


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Maybe she is there in case DC's New 52 bombs, and they use her as a lame plot device to stop the Flash from creating this new reality and they revert to how it use to be. That, or she is going to be what kicks off their first big story arc.


Poop can wait, Time Crisis is now!

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meakatommy wrote:
Maybe she is there in case DC's New 52 bombs, and they use her as a lame plot device to stop the Flash from creating this new reality and they revert to how it use to be. That, or she is going to be what kicks off their first big story arc.

i hope your theory is correct, and they revert.

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So! Read the first trade paperback of Invincible this afternoon, and I loved it. Really looking forward to the rest of the series. Now I'm starting in on The Walking Dead.

rams66 wrote:

meakatommy wrote:
Maybe she is there in case DC's New 52 bombs, and they use her as a lame plot device to stop the Flash from creating this new reality and they revert to how it use to be. That, or she is going to be what kicks off their first big story arc.

i hope your theory is correct, and they revert.

Why's that?


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SlenderTroll wrote:
So! Read the first trade paperback of Invincible this afternoon, and I loved it. Really looking forward to the rest of the series. Now I'm starting in on The Walking Dead.

Fantastic!


Poop can wait, Time Crisis is now!

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Anybody pick up anymore of the 52? I just got Batman, The Flash, and Hawkman.


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meakatommy wrote:
Anybody pick up anymore of the 52? I just got Batman, The Flash, and Hawkman.

I've read them all and I have to say that some are better than others. It strikes me as odd that some titles would maintain continuity from prior to Flashpoint and others would have a complete overhaul. Either way I am enjoying the current books but I feel that newer readers may become lost with the references to past events that they are unaware of.


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Yeah. Which is weird since they were doing this to basically reset everything so new readers wouldn't be lost.


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Finished the first trade paperbacks of The Walking Dead, Irredeemable, and Incorruptible, and loved all of them.

Picked up Aquaman #1 today, and really enjoyed it. Unfortunately, they were out of Swamp Thing, Animal Man, and All-Star Western, but they're getting them back in stock tomorrow.

EDIT: And as a new reader, I thought they did a good enough job of explaining what was going on that even in Green Lantern, which didn't reset at all, I understood what was happening, though the references to past events did escape my understanding.


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Some of my favs of the new 52 were the relaunched or the totally new titles. Some of the older titles I just was not that impressed with.


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SlenderTroll wrote:
Picked up Aquaman #1 today, and really enjoyed it.

I absolutely hate Aquaman, and I feel the same way. It was a great first issue.


Poop can wait, Time Crisis is now!

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meakatommy wrote:

SlenderTroll wrote:
Picked up Aquaman #1 today, and really enjoyed it.

I absolutely hate Aquaman, and I feel the same way. It was a great first issue.

Why's that? I think he's a pretty interesting character, though I don't know much about him.


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SlenderTroll wrote:

meakatommy wrote:

SlenderTroll wrote:
Picked up Aquaman #1 today, and really enjoyed it.

I absolutely hate Aquaman, and I feel the same way. It was a great first issue.

Why's that? I think he's a pretty interesting character, though I don't know much about him.

There's just something about him.


Poop can wait, Time Crisis is now!

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Aquaman was just downright amazing. I never thought he could be that... awesome.

I've been reading Detective Comics and thoroughly enjoying them. I picked up #2 today, but I haven't read it. Still, I don't really dislike the whole "No-face Joker" thing that's going on. I think it's neat. I mean, as crazy as the Joker is, I really never saw that coming. I'm excited to keep going. The Dark Knight, on the other hand, was disappointing, as well as Batman and Robin (Robin may be the worst son of all time).

My girlfriend and I are sharing a comics collection we're building with The New 52, and so far our favorites are Resurrection Man, Aquaman, Detective Comics, Animal Man, and Suicide Squad. We're picking up Animal Man #2 tomorrow, and I cannot wait. Also, my girlfriend is named after a comic book hero. How cool is that?

I really, really like the red hooded person thing that's going on. I personally find it to be really neat and intriguing.

I sincerely hope Green Lantern: New Guardians is really good. I love the concept of a team with one member from every corps. Also, its #1 issue had my favorite cover art.

Suicide Squad is currently my top comic. I'm really excited. Like, REALLY excited for more.


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So DC did an overhaul? It's a shame I don't know where the closest comic book store is or else I would join in the fun as well.

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Ronway wrote:
So DC did an overhaul? It's a shame I don't know where the closest comic book store is or else I would join in the fun as well.

They also made all their new 52 comics available online the same day as they release.


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Sadly reading online just doesn't have the same feel as having a comic on hand reading it.

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Ronway wrote:
Sadly reading online just doesn't have the same feel as having a comic on hand reading it.

True, but for some of us the only option is digital download of their favorite comics. I for one prefer the tactile feel of a comic in hand but sometimes the only way to get a copy of your favorite comic is via digital download.

As a side note the next wave of New 52 #2's are interesting but I still find that a few of them only okay over the awesomeness of the others. The list is as follows:
Action Comics
Animal Man (a favorite)
Batwing
Detective Comics
Green Arrow (a favorite)
Hawk and Dove
Justice League International
Men of War (a favorite)
O.M.A.C. (an absolute favoite)
Red Lanterns (a must read)
Static Shock
Stormwatch
Swamp Thing (a favorite)

A couple of mini-series were added this week to expand the new 52 Universe with The Huntress and Penguin: Pain and Prejudice.


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SlenderTroll wrote:
http://www.comicshoplocator.com/
Tada!

Awesome, thank you. And sad to say I must live in a sad area, no comic stores for 20 miles.

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I finally got to pick up a bunch of comics yesterday!  Read Firestorm and Birds of Prey, both of which I enjoyed.  It was weird to have Babs up and walking for her cameo on BoP, but I'm sure I'll get used to it. I don't think I like Black Canary's new costume, but we'll see if it grows on me. I haven't gotten to read Batgirl yet, but I'm looking forward to it. Gail's influence on the Firestorm dialogue was obvious and brilliant.

As far as non-DC, I'd added Ultimate Spiderman to my pull list, so I got #2, but forgot to pick up #1 because I'm an idiot.  I'm not a huge Spidey fan, but I'm all for giving this run a chance, if for no other reason than it's nice to see not a white dude as a book lead :P


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The Conscience wrote:

A couple of mini-series were added this week to expand the new 52 Universe with The Huntress and Penguin: Pain and Prejudice.

Oooh yeah, I'm SO picking up the Huntress mini.  I'd forgotten about that.


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That "non-white dude" has about the most racist name ever though, apart from the fact that there's only one Spider-man, and that's Peter Parker. Not Ben Reilly, not Kaine, just Pete. Change who's under the mask on anyone else, but Peter Parker is Spider-man, and Bruce Wayne is Batman.

Aside from all that, there are tons of books with non-Caucasian non-male heroes. In fact it's more than safe to say the MAJORITY of comics now are about non-Caucasian non-Male heroes. Even in the group books like X-men, you have Wolverine and Cyclops, and everyone else is a girl or a minority. So to favor a change that is for its own sake and for Bendis' guilt for being a white guy just because the new Spidey is not a white male is not only ridiculous, but is also reverse racism.

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Adam wrote:
That "non-white dude" has about the most racist name ever though, apart from the fact that there's only one Spider-man, and that's Peter Parker. Not Ben Reilly, not Kaine, just Pete. Change who's under the mask on anyone else, but Peter Parker is Spider-man, and Bruce Wayne is Batman.

Morales just sounds like a generic hispanic last name to me, and Miles is just a generic guy's name that's alliterative with Morales so I didn't read the name as racist. However I'm not intimately familiar with either black or hispanic cultural names, so I'll let that debate happen among people who know more than I do.

Adam wrote:
Aside from all that, there are tons of books with non-Caucasian non-male heroes. In fact it's more than safe to say the MAJORITY of comics now are about non-Caucasian non-Male heroes. Even in the group books like X-men, you have Wolverine and Cyclops, and everyone else is a girl or a minority. So to favor a change that is for its own sake and for Bendis' guilt for being a white guy just because the new Spidey is not a white male is not only ridiculous, but is also reverse racism.

Really?  Just looking at the new DC because it's a quick and simple list I count:
49 white men/boys
22 white women/girls
8 black men/boys
3 black women/girls
1 Asian woman
Not counting a number of aliens (who don't look human) and such, and a few people of indeterminate race or gender.  Specifics below the rest of my post if anyone cares.

I don't want change just for the sake of change, but I DO think that everyone should have a hero that they can look at and see themselves in at least a little bit. And those heroes shouldn't be caricatures of their race or gender or sexuality or whatever it is about them that is a "minority thing".  Don't even get me started on "reverse racism".  That is such a BS loaded term that I'm not going to bother with it. Just the first page of this will take care of that better than I could.
I want to see more black/Asian/Hispanic/Middle Eastern/gay/bi/poly/asexual/jewish/hindu/muslim/pagan/disabled/women/transgender/fat/WHATEVER people in my comics and books and tv and movies, because it's interesting and it's representative of the world around us, not out of some sort of hate for the majority. 
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Most of these are my knowledge from looking at covers for the new comics, so forgive me if any of the covers lead me to incorrect assumptions.  I still think it's a good general idea of the numbers
1. Justice League: 5 white men, 1 white woman, 1 black man
2. Wonder Woman: 1 white woman
3. Aquaman: 1 white man
4. Flash: 1 white man
5. Fury of Firestorm: 1 white teen boy, 1 black teen boy
6. The Savage Hawkman: 1 white man
7. Green Arrow: 1 white man
8. Justice League International: 3 white men, 2 white women, 1 black woman, 1 dude in a mech suit, one glowy chick, and one rocky/chitinous dude
9. Mister Terrific: 1 black man
10. Captain Atom: 1 Silver guy (Too lazy to research race previous to gaining powers :P)
11. DC Universe Presents: Variety of characters
12. Green Lantern: 1 white man
13. Green Lantern Corps: 1 white man, 1 black man, 1 white woman, a plethora of aliens, one of whom reads as female
14. Green Lantern: The New Guardians: 1 white man, 1 white(?) woman, 1 woman who reads as dark skinned on a couple of covers, but white on another, more aliens.
15. Red Lanterns: a bunch of pissed off aliens (side note:this cover is creepy as hell. wtf?)
16. Batman: 1 white man
17. Detective Comics: 1 white man (batman)
18. Batman and Robin: 1 white man, 1 white boy
19. Batman: 1 white man
20. Batwoman: 1 (super pasty!) white woman
21. Batgirl: 1 white woman
22. Catwoman: 1 white WOman  (Fixed! thanks for catching my error, TheJayMann!)
23. Birds of Prey: 2 white women, 1 black woman (who is sadly lightened on all these covers in a way she isn't on the inside), 1 asian woman
24. Nightwing: 1 white man
25. Red Hood and the Outlaws: 2 white men, 1 orange woman (who pretty much reads as white),
26. Batwing: 1 Black man
27. Swamp Thing: 1 white man/1 plant man
28. Animal Man: 1 white man
29. Justice League Dark: 2 white men, 2 white women, 1 literally WHITE man
30. Demon Knights: Hard to tell, 2nd cover has 3 white women, 1 white man, 1 white or maybe middle eastern looking man. and one androgenous person in a silly helmet, all around a demony dude.
31. Frankenstein, Agent of SHADE: Frankenstein's monster,  a green woman with 4 arms, 1 white teenage girl (Also, holy crap how did I know know something this ridiculous looking existed?!)
32. Resurrection Man: 1 white man
33. I, Vampire: 1 red vampire man, 1 white vampire woman (?)
34. Voodoo: 1 (half alien hybrid? o_O) black woman
35. Legion Lost: 1 white man, 1 black man, 1 white woman, 1 guy in a suit, a couple of aliens
36. Legion of Superheroes: 2 white men, 1 alien woman (?)
37. Teen Titans: 3 white men, 1 white woman, 1 darker skinned woman, 1 flaming woman (I adore wonder girl's outfit!)
38. Static Shock: 1 black man
39. Hawk and Dove: 1 white man, 1 white woman
40. Stormwatch: 3 white men, 1 green man, 1 silver woman, 1 maybe darker skinned man and one white person of indeterminate gender.
41. Blackhawks: 3 white men, 1 black man, two women of hard to determine race, one white person of indeterminate gender.
42. Sgt. Rock and the Men of War: 1 white man
43. All-Star Western: 1 white man with facial disfigurations
44. Deathstroke: 1 fully suited man
45. Grifter: 1 white man
46. OMAC: 1 giant blue dude
47. Suicide Squad: 1 white woman, 1 shark dude, one man in a mech suit
48. Blue Beetle: 1 hispanic teen boy
49. Action Comics: 1 white man
50. Superman: 1 white man
51. Supergirl: 1 white woman
52. Superboy: 1 white man

EDITED to fix Catwoman listing and final list tally.


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WriterRyan
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I'm not an expert by any means, but I can think of significantly more white heroes than black heroes. Dunno as much about the male-to-female ratio though.

However, I think the issue I have with this type of thing is that, perhaps, instead of altering iconic characters to make the pool more inclusive, why don't they just, you know, actually come up with some new characters? This would solve two things:[ type=decimal]

  • Not triggering nerd rage from folks who don't appreciate having characters they very much like or even identify with themselves altered in such an extreme way.
  • Actually exercising some sodding creativity so that the comic book market doesn't go stale. Enough with shocking and/or sexed up reboots: come up with some new characters with new stories to tell who happen to be non-white or non-male without being caricatures.
  • [/]


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