Phase action event, energy icon, and Vicious Technovore questions

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Azqa
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Phase action event, energy icon, and Vicious Technovore questions

My plans to play against Spite for Pydro's event #11 were derailed when I got home and saw my copy of GSF waiting for me.  Unfortunately, due to time restrictions, I didn't finish my attempt at a solo game, and I'm not sure how likely it is that I'll play this solo in the future.  I am definitely looking forward to trying it out with some friends though.

On to the questions:  I was trying the Technovores to start, and after setup I really didn't look at the flagship card until it went into play.  The Deployment section of the flaghip card, on its Impending side, has a {T} event - should I have been activating that event each turn's Travel phase, even though the flagship wasn't actively deployed yet?

Secondly, is there a reason for two different energy icons?  E.G. on Unconventional Style in the deck for Marot's Folly, the last line says "If it does, prevent that {E} removal and then remove {E} from Marot's Folly."  The two icons are different though.  The first one has the white starburst in the center of the green triangle, which is what I was expecting.  The second has something like a green shield inside the green triangle.  A number of other cards had that second {E} symbol as well, and I didn't find a reference or explanation for it.

Thirdly, the Vicious Technovore {A} event says "If the top card of any of this Sector's Station Decks is a Tech, scrap it.  This Ship gains {W} for each card scrapped this way."  The three top cards were techs so they all got scrapped.  The next top cards were also techs.  Should I have kept scrapping techs from the top of the Station Decks until only Boosts were present?

Pydro
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1) Yes.

2) The one with a star means "any" as opposed to a specific amount. In this case "if you lost any Energy prevent it then lose one."

3) No, just the initial top ones. This is where GSF differs from SotM. In SotM, actions continue until a phase is over, so if something new is added during the phase, it will activate. In GSF, this doesn't happen. All of the effects are set from the initial activation. Here, you only see the top three cards at the activation of the icon, so even if things change, only those cards will be relevant to the ability.


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Azqa
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Pydro wrote:

2) The one with a star means "any" as opposed to a specific amount. In this case "if you lost any Energy prevent it then lose one".

Ahh, durr.  That makes complete sense.  Thanks!

MigrantP
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I'm not a big fan of the icons with a star, personally. It's really hard to see from any distance which one it is, and it's a bit confusing. It's not at all obvious, and not explained anywhere in the rulebook.


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I think it is, because I remember looking it up, but I think it was in the middle of some explanatory text in the combat section or something, so I had to trawl through a bit and find it.


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grysqrl
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The star icons make a lot of sense to me, but I understand why they can be confusing and agree that all of the icons are a little difficult to distinguish (I probably would have used solid color backgrounds for all the icons). I recall (possibly incorretly - I don't have it in front of me to reference) the rulebook having a very theoretical explanation, but not a demonstration of application.

MigrantP
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Ah, there it is in a side note on page 12. It would be nice if that were explained up front, before they are used.


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On the Vicious Technovores: What happens if there's more than one Vicious Technovore in the same sector?

Pydro
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All Phase Icons activate sequentially, so fully complete one of the Vicous Technovores, then complete the other.


Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
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Nojh
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Here's a Technovore specific rules question: Some of the Technovore ships have bounties which let you scrap another ship in the sector who have shields equal to 1 or 0. If there are multiple of these ships, with their shields low, can you chain the bounties? Or does a bounty killing another ship not trigger the bounty on the second kill?

Pydro
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They chain.


Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-Robert E. Howard, "The Tower of the Elephant"

Nojh
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Okay. So I was going to ask about the official rules, which seem to contradict your answer, but I looked up your FAQ/re-write of the rules, and the bounty section here makes it a lot clearer. The bounty effect does not trigger off of energy removal AND scraping of the Opposition Ship. It triggers off of just the Opposition Ship being scrapped and it being a Strike Force Ship that cause the scrapping.

It is maybe still ambigious because someone could argue that a bounty effect scrapping an Opposition Ship is not a Strike Force Ship scrapping the Opposition Ship.

Foote
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Pydro wrote:

They chain.

I'm overruling Pydro on this one. No they don't

If a bounty on an Opp ship allows you to scrap another Opp ship, you do not get that second bounty. 

someone could argue that a bounty effect scrapping an Opposition Ship is not a Strike Force Ship scrapping the Opposition Ship.

This is correct.

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Fair enough.


Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-Robert E. Howard, "The Tower of the Elephant"

Nojh
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Alright cool. That'll save an argument or two around the table. I felt our last game was a little too easy with Tharendim and two EMP weapons lowering shields, then chain blowing up the Technovore. Although killing 4 ships in one combat round was very satisfying...

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Nojh wrote:

I felt our last game was a little too easy with Tharendim and two EMP weapons...

You might wanna avoid using Wrath then haha! She had to be houserule nerfed at my house (though just slightly).

KuroSoul19
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Hey good day! after reading this thread It helped me to understand more about the game. I am happy to learn more about it and the tips are very helpful.

Silverleaf
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SPAM ALERT!


Just assume I'm always doing that.

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Don't just to conclusions, Silverleaf. wink There's no links and there's no out-of-place comments. Could just be a new-comer with lesser English skills.

Welcome KuroSoul19! (Pleasedon'tbeabot...)

 


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I saw the exact same message (albeit with a link) in a different thread.  The thread was one of the Sentinels of the Multiverse forums.


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There was a link but someone edited it out. No really, I came into this thread before Silverleaf posted and there was a link there.


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Silverleaf
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Rabit wrote:

Don't just to conclusions, Silverleaf. wink There's no links and there's no out-of-place comments. Could just be a new-comer with lesser English skills.Welcome KuroSoul19! (Pleasedon'tbeabot...) 

There was a link when I posted. A link with unrelated text in a super-generic post from a brand new user is spam 99 times out of 100.

I apologise if that's not the case here.


Just assume I'm always doing that.

Damn it, Ronway!

Rabit
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No, you were completely in the right if that's what was there. yes Sorry I missed it!

I guess we'll have to see if/when Kurosoul19 posts next...


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Awww, and here I was excited about new activity in the GSF section of the forums...

Wish more people were open to discussion about this game.  Honestly I play this game more often than Sentinels and wish there was more community support for it.  But it almost feels as if everyone is just kind of sweeping it under the rug.

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I want to play it more, but honestly...since the game does not have a built-in timer AND can keep slowing down player progression, my (admittedly limited) experience with it is that it's far too easy for the game to drag on into 3-4 bored/frustrated hour territory.  

By built-in timer I mean that nothing in the game mechanics steers the game toward a definite end.  Depending on the Opposition, once players clear a Sector they can just stay there and build up.  They need to build up in order to be able to take out the opposition ships and ultimately the flagship, and it seems far more reasonable to build up until you can one- or two-shot the Flagship due to the way Weapons are compared to Defense for Energy loss.  If they have that sector cleared, they can just stay there building and building and building while every turn they have to process a ton of Phase Actions in other sectors that are potentially meaningless.  Then, if the buildup has gone well, a ship goes over to engage the Flagship and boom, game over this round or the next round when another ship does the same thing to finish it off.

By slowing down player progression I mean that (again, depending on the Opposition), while trying to build up to the point where they can begin clearing other Sectors, those other Sectors can keep sending ships to the currently controlled Sector and then generating new ones since they're now under the Fleet Limit.  Okay, so the players need to send someone into those Sectors to buy the cards to prevent them from flipping to Opp Ships, unless of course the Boosts would pull in ships as well...and now since at least player has left the one Sector they controlled, they're potentially outnumbered in two Sectors and the cascade of flipping cards starts to snowball so they have to regroup in the original Sector again and OMG we just spent an hour to NO ULTIMATE EFFECT.

I really love the idea of the game, and I want to play more of it...but the way it's played out in my games so far, the gameplay has been tedious and the ending (win OR loss) has been anticlimactic.  That's a hard sell to any group.

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Always play with Elite Mode Icons on.

You will be surprised how much of a difference it makes.

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I've also been thinking of a few house rules / variants.  Can't really post about them in the General GSF Discussion section as the link redirects to the rules section. (I've already alerted >G of this, no worries)  But one idea was to add a sort of "doom counter;" every round in which an overrun sector has zero engaged opposition ships in it the counter ticks down. this would force people to venture into overrun sectors and fight more often.  Still haven't come up with a good number to start the "doom counter" at, nor have I thought of a better name for it.

 

One thing I've been wanting to do is actually have a good discussion on house-rules, variants, and ways to make the game better.  Because lets face it, the game has it's faults. It's still an incredibly innovative game system, and I'd love to see more games made with similar game mechanisms.  Maybe even expansions to GSF itself that in some way fix any shortcomings.

 

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My House Rules have been posted a lot on BGG forums and have had a lot of success with folks. If you enjoy the game but crave a little extra push to fine tune the experience, I highly recommend you try these out. I have played a lot of GSF and these changes have made the total game experience noteably better for me and others I've introduced the game to. 

Game Rules:

1. Elite Mode Icons always on

2. No added W/D to Opposition

3. Flagship kill is the only win condition

Explaination - This is pretty much a middle ground where we take the best aspects of Elite Mode and Normal Mode and combine them in way that makes the most thematicaly satisfying gameplay. Elite Mode Icons are crucial! Not only do they add pure flavor to each Opposition, they force you to interact with each Opposition far more differently than you do without them. Also, by eliminating the win condition of clearing all sectors you have to take into account how and when you will force the Flagship out and eliminates games where you never see the flagship. No need to clear the sectors afterward either as that just creates a slog for the players to push through after what should be the major victory. You may add the extra W/D to Opposition ships if you wish, but I feel like it doesn't add any flavor to the game experience so I disregard it. The game can be plenty challenging without it (plus it's more tokens to worry about).

Wrath:

1. "Sensor Array" only allows 1 draw per phase.

2. "Goaded Pursuit" only moves up to 2 other ships instead of an unlimited number

Explaination - Let's be frank here. Wrath, as is, is so overpowered it's not funny. Goaded Pursuit allows you to force entire sectors from being overrun, single handedly destroying any sense of danger of losing. That alone is why Wrath needs errata. Sensor Array + half her deck being extra movement allows her to cycle her entire deck each round regardless of the number of cards you buy which undermines the "deck building" aspect and careful purchase choice planning that makes other ship decks engaging. And if you manage to snag an OCS Waypoint or Cloaking tech, this issue magnifies 10 fold. Even with these two slight nerfs to her best cards, Wrath is still a top teir ship in terms of Energy building (thanks to appropriation beam and 8 FInger Discount) and team utility (Goaded Pursuit is still very good for sector manipulation even with the nerf). One SF ship shouldn't take away all fear of getting overrun, and now Wrath is playable again while still being very enjoyable and unique in what she does and what she prefers to buy.

Singularity:

1. Assault Side - If the Singularity ever reaches 65 or more total Energy, It will have enough power to emit a galactic wide signal that infects every piece of technology with the Singularity's code. After it selfdestructs your Strike Force ships, it proceedes to easily take over the entire galaxy. You lose

Explaination - The Singularity needs a some kind of timer mechanic, else it is just going to keep growing at a pace that the Strike Force ships usually can't keep up with, creating one of those multi-hour stalemate scenarios. You could still squeak out a win, but at what time cost? The addition of this kind of timer not only totaly prevents the stalemate scenario, but it injects a huge scense of urgency right from the start of the game through the end, and a huge component of winning is placed in the early game and how well you can deal with Alpha Primes before the Singularity eventually appears and gets out of control. It solidifies the Singularity as the biggest and badest challenge in GSF while keeping the tension and excitment in the game experience.

Nyotan:

1. Assault Side - replace [A] icon effect with: Remove 3 Energy from the Strike Force Ship in this sector with the least Energy then remove 1 Energy from each other Strike Force Ship in this sector

Explaination - It's a god damn lazer dragon! I want it's Fire/Lazer breath to have some real heat to it! Nyotan will be pretty angry at the end of each round and will aim for the low hanging fruit to synergize with it's [I] icon effect. It's slow enough comming at the Aftermath that smart Strike Force ships will find time to move away from it and kiting is already a key part in the strategy against it. It also means that you really don't want to face Nyotan alone with just your biggest Strike Force Ship to tank or it'll be shredded. You'll need another ship to run interference and act as a distraction. I like the way it plays out thematicaly. Nyotan is kinda toothless once he flips and his Harbingers don't resurect and this change ups the danager ante a tad and injects some additional strategical planning.

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Very nice changes, Foote!


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DerpTheBugbear wrote:

I've also been thinking of a few house rules / variants.  Can't really post about them in the General GSF Discussion section as the link redirects to the rules section. (I've already alerted >G of this, no worries)  But one idea was to add a sort of "doom counter;" every round in which an overrun sector has zero engaged opposition ships in it the counter ticks down. this would force people to venture into overrun sectors and fight more often.  Still haven't come up with a good number to start the "doom counter" at, nor have I thought of a better name for it. One thing I've been wanting to do is actually have a good discussion on house-rules, variants, and ways to make the game better.  Because lets face it, the game has it's faults. It's still an incredibly innovative game system, and I'd love to see more games made with similar game mechanisms.  Maybe even expansions to GSF itself that in some way fix any shortcomings. 

 

I completely agree with you here, and actually has proposed my own variants on bgg. We then discussed those with Foote... Could interest you.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1361746/fixing-galactic-strike-force